Everyone here has said Willwood have a good product. I use their brake fluid exclusively...great product and performance, reasonable price. I am glad you had a good experience with Willwoods on on your cav. You gonna put them on your TVS 'balt?

 

At some point, thats pretty far down the list though right after

Rotated Trans mounts
WOT box
OTTP option B brackets
axles
clutch
drag radials
cry02
suspension
audio

 

I may get them in the fall after I pay down my TVS build.....

 

can you combine the brembo and the time attack rotors?

 

no. time attack are 311 x28 mm and brembo are 315 x 26. I am working on a coleman rotor, am making and will have hats shortly, PFC dont make a 315 we can use...Coleman Machine is a USA company builds good sturdy rotors for about 135-200 each depending on config.

Like Maven said the Time Attack set up is economical , long lasting, and very effective once you get past not having a 4 or 6 piston set up

 

idk the idea of more than one piston pushing on the brake evenly
just sounds so much better than one big ol piston pushing on the brakes.

 

todd. where do you think mavens information gets fed through before it is posted? the overall surface area of the 6 piston calipers vs the stock twins, or single might actually be the same as the stockers. hence the none noticeable change in fluid drain under heavy braking. {i am dumbing this down here} trying to compare an rsx to a cobalt is setting yourself up for failure. do you really think you are smarter than people who design the brake kits from bembo, wilwood, baer, and others who manufacture brake upgrade kits? do you have a solid fluid dynamics background? do you have years of hands on research in this exact field instead of spitting out what others tell you?

it's simple. you do not possess the knowledge and first had experience to say what does and does not work in this area. all you are doing is spitting out information that is reworded from previous posts.

 

I can't speak for his info sources, he seems like a nice enough guy and with some knowledge behind it. Nothing more, nothing less.

You 'dumbing it down' is spot on and perhaps I went too far in trying to explain this. It was only from a constant statement that the six pot (by design I'm assuming) would displace more fluid than a singe with the same piston area moving roughly the same distance to offset pad wear. And as we have both shown; that's not the case. Please look back and you'll see I'm not echoing others but rebutting Mavens comments that all the sixes were too large. No doubt he did not even know what I had existed, I'm cool with that.

The only reason for the comparing to the RSX is that it and others perform quite well on six pot calipers. Granted as we have discussed picking the proper part and pairing it with the right use will always remain key. And as a few of us have mentioned; certainly expecting mind-blowing race car size and function on a shoe string budget presents a hole host of other issues.

Do I think I'm smarter? Never said I was. On the other hand with thousands of customers running my products in various forms for over 17yrs....I'd say I'm fairly qualified. From open track to rally to drag kits I've designed and built many. And I'm certain if there were any doubt in the minds of those at Wilwood, I'd not field a call or two a day for referrals on custom builds. Sadly perhaps it's been said I know more about their product line and design criteria than some of their sales staff. Not terribly surprising given my time and that most salesman are just that and don't handle the actual on car. Chest thumping aside I've aided in a few of their own product designs over the years if you must know.

If anyone wishes to check my business credentials by all means please do. I'd be happy to supply numerous references both street and track. A shopping list of forums for both build quality, customer service, design and results. Maybe a One Lap class winner or record holder at various track events for the enthusiast like yourself? If my background of racing and prep work for others winning SCCA championships is not enough, perhaps managing shop facilities for two of the largest driving school fleets in the country would help? Even in my spare time I've been know to notch a few key wins from time to time in competition using my own work. A background in fluid dynamics; no. Do you? If so that's cool too. In the end we came to the same conclusions with the math. Speaking of which if you or anyone wants to test some of your set ups you are free to use my online bias calculator: http://www.tceperformanceproducts.co...alculator.html If you need more info or dual cylinder set ups with appropriate bore sizes and basing bar offsets or pedal ratios please get with me offline as I don't publish that form.

So I guess I'm unclear what you're hoping to find. I have no desire or intent to become a Brembo or Wilwood company. But let me say there are more than a few others who would love to see me close the door and try to take over the success TCE has had in markets they can't get a foothold in. Two of those large (and fine) companies were not even in business when I began! lol Maybe it's not as simple as you think.

 

my personal street car will be getting a tried and true setup. suspension, and brakes. i am tired of being the test monkey for stuff. 90% of the people on this forum do not need massive brakes. they will never use them. pads and lines will get them to the point of exactly what they want. i understand trying to push them to a bigger setup. i don't push people to do this in my job. i think it is a bad business practice. much like putting zo6 brakes on a cobalt. the delta's do not have the fluid capacity, nor the need to do that. has it been done? yulp. on a show car. big shiny stuff wins car shows. the performance world doesn't care.

 

And well you should. (I'll try to toss out some tech here to someone not looking for fight or whatever)

Assuming piston areas are the same or 'near same'. The total clamping forces will be the same for the given input pressure. The multi piston design has the benefit of applying a more equal load on the pad plate. For street use it maybe moot to some, but for harder use it prevents the pad pressure from going to high in the middle of the pad. This often leads to a bent or 'banana' shape pad when less than maybe 60% of the pad is doing all the work. If you've seen this you know what I mean.

Next on the food chain is the twin pot floater. As shown elsewhere it improves the pressure points on the pad by spreading them out. Superior to the single above it too has trade offs. The body is still a slider and it's reaction is not as linear as a fixed mount (following) and is subject to sticky slide pins, clips or whatever them move on. Few two post sliders are differential bore. That's too bad as this would help prevent some of the taper wear shown in the previous pictures. The taper comes from a leading edge where (enhanced by slots, holes etc) that bites into fresh iron. As the rotor continues over the pad path a boundary layer develops that prevents the trailing piston from functioning was well. For that reason differential bore parts fit a larger piston to the trailing edge to generate more clamping force on the pad place.

The final set up is the fixed, mulit piston set up. It can be had in 'non' dif bore set ups or in staggered fit pistons. For the same reasons above. For the most part such differential bores are more money for production reasons: you need four bodies not two in order to assemble the product line. And when you do multi bore size splits that can be more costly. The four pot with equal bore is not to be overlooked in favor of the differential four or six for guys who do track days. As taper develops you simply flip the pads at the end of the day- often the case on open wheel car I've serviced for years anyhow. For the street guy this may be more work than one wishes. This design also boosts feel or feedback and response time as there is less slop in the function of clamp and release.

The other thing that changes with the two or more piston caliper is the pad shape and size. You'll see that nearly all comp calipers have a narrower pad profile. Technically it's "short" when viewed on the bench. By doing this the pad achieves a higher Er o effective radius over the conventional single pot pad. While they may wear faster, the outer edge of a rotor runs a few hundred degrees hotter then the minor diameter. For track use it's benefits are more efficiency and a lighter rotor with a narrower band or 'fire strip' that keeps the eye of the rotor larger and a balance between weight and effectiveness. The single pot caliper goes for 'swept area' values (the amount of surface the pad covers in one rotation of the rotor) and for street use this keeps temps down some, vibrations down and a quieter operation.

So in summary your request is correct if you understand the trade offs of one over the other. What gets most people into trouble is the req wheel fit needs of the fixed mount, muilti piston caliper. They can range from a low of slightly under 2" of friction surface overhang to well over 3" in some calipers to fit pads that are nearly 1.2" thick- each.

Hope that helps.

 

changing rims 4tl