I am on Eibach sportlines and I kinda want to switch to pedders springs. So when I went

to get my car aligned after I got my sportlines on, they said my camber was off so they

groved my struts. So I was wondering if I replace the sportlines with pedders will i need

my struts re-groved or need new struts? Or will everything be fine and dandy. And one

more thing, I dont autoX but I want my car to handle great in the mountains. Should I get

a hardcore bar or anything else?

Thanks-

 

The 1" bar from OTTP would probably do you just fine. And yes, Pedders are a great idea.

 

Pedders and the Hardcore bar are a great choice. I have the Hardcore bar on my car and it is only gonna come off for the snow, but If youre driving through really fast canyon stuff you MAY want to stick to the Street bar as its a bit less aggressive. The Hardcore bar will introduce some oversteer on fast turns, especially on uneven pavement.

You shouldnt need new struts unless they are worn.

 

I recommend the pedders for sure. The hardcore bar only if you are going to race on a road course maybe autox. If you are just on the street, get the street 1" bar from ottp.

 

Thinking about getting Pedders springs. What is the drop? Any pictures?
-Thanks

 

is the drop almost identical between pedders and sportlines? because it was expensive to get my camber fixed with the sportlines so if they have to re adjust the camber for the pedders im not sure if i can afford it.

 

I'll have to test out the bar on some local twisties before I head deep into the hills...

 

I want to do this, except I'm coming from H&R's, but I think the place that aligned me royally fucked up.

 

Anyone?. . . . lol

 

I dont think the pedders drop you as much as the sportlines.
So I think you might get raised back up very slightly. But dont qoute me on this.

 

you are right. For camber as the car is raised it will be less and thats probably a good thing. My car has 1.5 negative camber at the front just with the Pedders drop and my drop is 3 mm less than a cobalt drop i suspect.

I rated a set of Blue H&R today. The are similar to the Eibach. Good material like the Eibach, but same flaw: softer in the initial range for the first inch or so of travel,( than stock) and then crunch, coil bound after that and the rate skyrockets upwards. Which means most of the time, with only one or two operational coils , the car jacks weight, bounces and generally is a pita to drive. On the highway bounce bounce bounce at the back. yikes!

 

So Pedders are your best bet I guess. And no new shocks are needed with them.

 

y u say that?

 

Because my car is making some horrible noises especially when I'm making sharp turns.

 

clicking?rubbing? grinding?

 

No rubbing, more of a clunking.

 

drop links.....seems to be the thing this time of year....powergridinc from OTTP is the best solution....

 

Explain more please lol. I bought their adjustable endlinks hoping that would help but it hasn't.

 

She has endlinks, IIRC i looked at the car, and it's just the sway bar barely touching the FLCA in certain turns/bump at the same time.

She may be having a clunk in the rear, but from what i remember, its pretty faint. I'll look at it again, see if i can't find anything for you Marisa. I've gotta get your car set up for my HPT cable anyways.

 

Well I was reading a tsb about the steering column and it sounds like that could be it or at least part of the problem as it only clunks when I'm either not moving, or driving reeeeeeeally slow. The rear sound is that slight click from the rubbing...which I KNOW Is Impulse's fault I just don't know where to go in order to get that fixed. And I dunno if I'm getting that ecu anymore Bryan said the vcn's wouldn't match and I guess that's important lol. I just don't get it because other ppl with the same springs I have don't have any of these problems.

 

He's probably right.

I'll have to look at your car. They said they made the alignment closer to "perfect" than factory specs, so it may not have been that.

I doubt it's the steering column, i've driven your car many times with that clunk and i don't think it has anything to do with the column. I just think its from the way the car loads the CAB's in a low speed turn/ stopped turn.

I have a feeling solid CAB's would fix it.

Buuutt, i'll look at it again before we go to the auto show.

 

Well...they were aligning it to the specs of the 05-07 cobalt's so I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not. I'll copy and paste that message, it sounds like exactly what my car is doing I just have to find it. I'm not buying the ecu so that's an extra $200 I can use to buy whatever my car needs right now lol.

Here it is: I have conditions 1 and 4 I believe.

Service Information
Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help
2009 Chevrolet Cobalt | Cobalt, G5 (VIN A) Service Manual | Document ID: 2239750
#04-03-08-006D: Steering and Front Suspension Noise Concerns - Clunk, Thump, Rattle, Knocking, Pop, Shudder, Vibration (Diagnosis and Perform Necessary Repairs) - (Feb 24, 2009)

Subject: Steering and Front Suspension Noise Concerns -- Clunk, Thump, Rattle, Knocking, Pop, Shudder, Vibration (Diagnosis and Perform Necessary Repair)

Models: 2005-2009 Chevrolet Cobalt (Including SS)
2006-2009 Chevrolet HHR (Including SS)
2005-2006 Pontiac Pursuit (Canada Only)
2007-2009 Pontiac G5
2003-2007 Saturn ION

This bulletin is being revised to add Condition #3. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-03-08-006C (Section 03 - Suspension).

This bulletin provides information on seven different steering/front suspension noise conditions.


Condition #1

Some customers may comment on a rattle or knocking noise that is heard in the front of the vehicle while driving at low speeds 8-24 km/h (5-15 mph). This condition may be more noticeable while making a slow turn or on a loose/rough surface.

This condition can be duplicated by the technician using the following procedure:

1. On a rough or loose surface (i.e., gravel parking lot), make a sweeping turn (either direction) at 8-24 km/h (5-15 mph to load the steering column, I-shaft and steering rack/gear mechanisms. The testing on a rough or loose surface will allow the wheels to oscillate slightly and will make the rattle/knocking noise more evident and repeatable.
2. Release the steering wheel while making the turn to take load off of steering components. This should initiate the rattle/shudder noise, which is generated by backlash in the steering assembly as it is in a no-load float condition.

Object Number: 1858410 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Remove the 60 amp EPS fuse (1) in the underhood fuse block.
4. Test the vehicle as in Step 1. Since the EPS motor is no longer powered, only the I-shaft and steering gear/rack will be loaded as you make the turn. If you hear the rattle/knocking noise during the turn, then the noise is being generated by the backlash within the steering column (assist motor gear mechanism).
5. Replace the 60 amp EPS fuse and repeat Steps 1 and 2 to verify that the rattle/knocking noise disappears when turning (loading steering mechanism) and can only be heard when releasing the steering wheel.

Correction #1

If the steering column is identified as the source of the rattle/knocking noise in the above test, replace the steering column.

Important: The noise in the steering column is generated from the metal to plastic gear backlash of the assist motor mechanism and will have a different sound than that from the steering gear. If the customer comments that they still hear a noise, it may be a different sound from either the I-shaft or the steering rack.

If the steering column is not identified as the source of the rattle/knocking in the above test, continue to diagnose the vehicle according to the diagnostics in SI.
Parts Information #1

For part numbers and usage of the column, see Steering Column Kit in Group 06.518 of the appropriate Parts Catalog. Saturn Retailers should refer to the appropriate model year Parts & Illustration Catalog for the vehicle.
Warranty Information #1

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E7680
Column Assembly, Steering - Replace
Use Published Labor Operation Time


Condition #2 (Chevrolet Cobalt, HHR and Pontiac G5 Only)

Some customers may comment on a clunk or thump noise coming from the front suspension while driving over rough road surfaces. This noise will typically occur when the front suspension is returning to the upward position after a hard downward stroke, such as after driving through a large rut or pothole.
Cause #2

This condition may be caused by the jounce bumper slamming into the upper spring seat because it is not retained in the correct up position. The jounce bumper loses position due to oil being deposited onto its retention fingers. The oil is from the strut leaking.
Correction #2

Inspect the front strut(s) for evidence of oil. The leak may be slight but will still cause the concern. If oil is present, replace the affected strut, jounce bumper and dust boot (shield). Before reassembling the strut assembly, glue the new jounce bumper and new dust boot (shield) to the upper spring seat using the steps listed below. To further confirm this concern, the shield/bumper will easily slide up and down the strut shaft.

Object Number: 2159615 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. Clean the surface area of the upper spring seat using fine sandpaper.
2. Apply a light coat *of 3M™ Automotive Adhesion Promoter, P/N 06396, to the top of the dust boot (shield) on the inside edge and to the top of the bumper. Allow to dry 10 minutes.

Object Number: 2159607 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Glue the bumper to the inside of the dust boot (shield) as shown. Use *3M™ Duramix™ Super Fast Adhesive, P/N 04747. Allow to cure thoroughly 5-10 minutes at room temperature.
4. Apply a light coat of *3M™ Automotive Adhesion Promoter, P/N 06396, to the top of the dust boot (shield) and to the upper spring seat surface. Allow to dry 10 minutes.

Object Number: 2159612 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
5. Glue the dust boot (shield) to the upper spring seat as shown using the above recommended adhesive. Allow to cure thoroughly.

*We believe this source and their products to be reliable. There may be additional manufacturers of such products. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from this firm or for any such items which may be available from other sources.

Parts Information #2
Part Number
Description
Qty
Material Allowance
21992520
hield, Frt Suspension Strut
22712118
Bumper, Frt Suspension Strut
04747
3M™ Duramix™ Super Fast Adhesive
1
$22.00
06396
3M™ Automotive Adhesion Promoter
2
$4.00

For part numbers and usage of the strut, see Strut Kit in Group 07.345 of the appropriate Parts Catalog.

Warranty Information #2

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E9478*

Replace Front Strut and Secure Bumper and Shield to Spring Seat
1.5 hrs
AddTo Perform Repair on Other Side

1.3 hrs

AddFor alignment times, refer to operation E2020 and add the applicable times to the regular hours.

* This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. The number will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.


Condition #3

Some customers may comment on a clunk/pop type noise coming from the front of the vehicle when driving over rough road surfaces.
Cause #3

This noise may be caused by the stabilizer shaft link ball stud becoming contaminated from moisture.
Correction #3

Inspect the front stabilizer shaft links for damage. To isolate the noise, the link can be also be disconnected from the stabilizer shaft. If the link appears damaged or if the noise goes away when disconnected, replace the link with the revised part.
Parts Information #3

Part Number
Description
Usage
Qty
20784686
Link Asm., Front Stabilizer Shaft (300 mm Shaft)

2006-2009 HHR (FE1, FE3)

2005-2009 Cobalt (FE1, FE3)

2005-2006 Pursuit (FE1, FE3)

2007-2009 G5 (FE1, FE3)

2003-2007 ION (FE1, FE2, FE3)


2

20784687
Link Asm., Front Stabilizer Shaft (250 mm Shaft w/Washer)
2008-2009 HHR (FE5)
2005-2009 Cobalt (FE5)
2007-2009 G5 (FE5)

2

20784688
Link Asm., Front Stabilizer Shaft (250 mm Shaft)

2006-2009 HHR (FE1, FE3)

2005-2009 Cobalt (FE5)

2005-2006 Pursuit (FE5)

2007-2009 G5 (FE5)


2
Warranty Information #3

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E2147
Stabilizer Shaft Link Replacement (Both Sides)

Use Published Labor Operation Time


Condition #4

Some customers may comment on a clunk type noise coming from the front of the vehicle during a turning maneuver. This condition can also be felt through the steering wheel when the vehicle is stationary and the wheel is rotated from steering stop to steering stop. Typically, the clunk noise will be heard once for every 90° of steering wheel rotation in either direction. This clunk noise may also be noticed during low speed acceleration or deceleration, typically in light turns of the steering wheel.

The following are characteristics of this noise:
• This noise is very random.
• This noise is independent of the steering wheel angle and independent of the bumpiness of the road.
• This noise is a low frequency dull one and can be felt in your feet.
• This noise can normally be heard from the driver seat.
• This noise can be felt upon touching the steering gear from outside of the vehicle.

Note: You might also notice a slight scrub-type noise when turning the wheel back and forth. This type of noise is considered normal and repairs will not eliminate it.
Cause #4

This condition may be caused by inadequate lubrication of the steering intermediate shaft.
Correction #4

Important: DO NOT replace the steering gear or steering column assembly.

Replace the intermediate shaft.

Important: If the vehicle has already had a steering intermediate shaft replaced for a similar noise concern that the dealer duplicated, determine from the customer if the noise went away for a period of time and came back, or if the service shaft made no change. If the noise was gone for a period of time and came back, have the dealer replace the shaft again to verify we do not have a defective service shaft.

If this does not eliminate the noise, continue to diagnose the vehicle according to the diagnostics in SI.
Parts Information #4

Part Number
Description
15800140
Shaft, Intermediate Steering (Cobalt/G5/Pursuit)
15799676

Shaft, Intermediate Steering (ION)
22730246

Shaft, Intermediate Steering (HHR)

Warranty Information #4
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E7700

Shaft, Steering Intermediate - Replace
Use Published Labor Operation Time


Condition #5

Some customers may comment on a rattle/clunk type noise coming from the steering column when driving over bumps.
Correction #5

The following steps have been found to be very effective in removing this condition.


Object Number: 2003905 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. Check for the possibility of the PCM and the TCM rattling/clunking together. If there is contact between these two modules, insulate the modules from each other using a small piece of foam.

Object Number: 2003906 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
2. Check that the retaining clip on the engine coolant surge tank is fully seated. If not, push down to seat.

Rattles/clunks in this area of the engine compartment may be heard as coming from the steering column while driving.

If this does not eliminate the noise, continue to diagnose the vehicle according to the diagnostics in SI.
Warranty Information #5
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E9458*
Repair to Correct Rattle/Clunk Noise in Front of Vehicle
0.2 hr

* This is a unique labor operation number for bulletin use only. The number will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.



Condition #6 (FE1 Suspension Only)


Some customers may comment on a clunk, thump or rattle noise coming from the front suspension while driving over rough road conditions or when braking.
Cause #6

Object Number: 2003907 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

This condition may be caused by the lower control arm rubber bushing (rear) coming out of its steel sleeve (1). This will cause the lower control arm to make hard contact (2) with the body structure. This condition may be more prevalent in regions that use road salt during the winter months.
Correction #6

If the rubber bushing has moved out of the steel sleeve, replace the lower control arm bushing. Do not replace the bushing if it is still centered in the steel sleeve.

If this does not eliminate the noise, continue to diagnose using chassis ears to identify the source of the noise.

Parts Information #6
Part Number
Description
25984679
Bushing, Front Lower Control Arm (Cobalt/G5/HHR/Pursuit)

22688205
Bushing, Front Lower Control Arm (ION)
Warranty Information #6

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E3550

Bushings ad/or Shaft, Front Control Arm Lower (Right) - Replace
Use Published Labor Operation Time
E3551
Bushings ad/or Shaft, Front Control Arm Lower (Left) - Replace
E3557
Bushings ad/or Shaft, Front Control Arm Lower (Both) - Replace


Condition #7 (Saturn ION Only)

Some customers may comment on a squeak, rattle, pop, or clunk noise coming from the front of the vehicle during suspension movement.
Cause #7

This condition may be caused by the interface between the front stabilizer shaft, the front stabilizer shaft insulators (bushings) and the front stabilizer shaft mounting clamp.
Correction #7

Replace the front stabilizer shaft insulators (bushings), if necessary, using the following procedure.

1. Verify the customer comment. Use Chassis Ear (SA9217NE or J39570) or a similar tool to determine the source of the noise. Refer to Noise Diagnosis - Front Suspension in SI.
2. If the noise is coming from either the front stabilizer shaft insulators (bushings) or the clamps:

Important: Check the Service Parts Identification label in the rear compartment (trunk) to determine the vehicle's suspension system type, then obtain the correct insulators (bushings) corresponding to that suspension system type.
• On vehicles built after VIN breakpoint 4Z125195, replace both front stabilizer shaft insulators (bushings). Refer to the Stabilizer Shaft Insulator Replacement procedure in SI.
• On vehicles built up to and including VIN 4Z125195, replace the front stabilizer shaft insulators (bushings) and clamps. Refer to the Stabilizer Shaft Insulator Replacement procedure in SI.
3. Verify the repair by repeating Step 1.

Parts Information #7
Part Number
Description
Qty

15820162
Insulator, Front Stabilizer Shaft (2007 FE1 Suspension)
2

15820163
Insulator, Front Stabilizer Shaft (2007 FE2 Suspension)

2
15820164
Insulator, Front Stabilizer Shaft (2003-2007 FE3 Suspension)

2
22722387
Clamp, Front Stabilizer Shaft
2

Warranty Information #7

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E2180
Insulator and/or Bracket, Front Stabilizer Shaft - Replace
Use Published Labor Operation Time


Condition #8

Some customers may comment on a whine/hum noise from the steering column while making right hand turns at 5-15 mph (8-24 km/h). A slight whine/hum noise is considered to be normal for EPS so it will be helpful to compare to another like vehicle. If the vehicle exhibits excessive feedback/noise when compared to another vehicle, follow the correction procedure below.
Correction #8

Important: DO NOT replace the steering column.

Object Number: 1858410 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Pull the 60 amp steering fuse (1) in the underhood fuse block. If this eliminates the whine/hum concern, contact the Technical Assistance Center for further information in order to repair the vehicle. If this does not eliminate the noise, continue to diagnose the vehicle according to the diagnostics in SI.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


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© 2009 General Motors. All rights reserved.

 

You can't feel it in the steering wheel.

Your shocks are fine, i.e. not leaking.

It;s not any of the ball joints, you have a brand new set of endlinks.

It's not your power steering motor.

Control arm bushing is FE1 only.

I can see where the sway bar is contacting your control arm. Like i said, i'll look again. It may be the person on the assembly line didn't quite pay attention and your front stabilizer bar is off center, and it only became apparent when you lowered the car. I'll check that too.
Your PCM could likely be loose, but that;s not the sound it's making.

I doubt it's the bushings that hold the sway bar to the subframe, but i'll look at it.

 

I think I might have the same problem. Does it thump like if your pulling into a parking spot or doing a u turn? It feels like its in the suspension though so i dont know.

 

I can feel it in my steering wheel though.