Not a chance it's the rear tires squealing. It's still FWD.

 

oh wow well good info, and yes im going to check out that thread. thanks

 

This

 

i checked that thread, the only thing that sucks is you dont know what springs are on what car lmao.

 

I get em to scream in the rear..hammering it exiting through a sharp turn. It's power oversteer....even with this car you can get it, given the massive power on tap. Off camber turns for sure, but I get it on all sharp turns powering down pre apex. I definitely get my rear end to come around hard. This does require giving it aggressive throttle mid turn...I'm still amazed that you can't get this to happen in your car. Give it more throttle..I'm talking *pucker factor* here..throttle down hard while turning in . I've actually tossed out the rear and caught it by applying full throttle again while straightening it out...awsome sensation with FWD and LS.

 

OMG it's the elusive factory RWD Cobalt!

Unless the pedal you're hammering is the one in the middle or there's some detail missing like "with McDonald's trays under the tires," this pretty much violates every law of vehicle dynamics.

 

You don't know what you're talking about..that's obvious. Are you telling me there's no way you can bring the tail out in this car WHILE TURNING IN HARD? Guess you never tried it have ya?

 

Mkay. Video? I want to see this. I've been racing cars for the better part of the last decade. I've never seen a front wheel car squeal the REAR tires by mashing the GAS without a catastrophic failure of some kind.

 

its actually pretty easy
you basically need a u-shaped on ramp
put it in second and got wot
try to go as straight as you can towards the apex
time it right to where youll be at like 5500rpm full boost once your close and turn the wheel left real quick
the back end will go right out like no other

 

In *real life*..not gonna happen.but I make it happen all the time as explained here:
It take off camber or decreasing radius turns to bring it about though.


Power Oversteer with FWD cars - GTP Forums

Take the Ford Focus RS, put it on the Tsukuba curcuit, and drive round it reasonable slowly, you will see that you can indeed perform lift off oversteer, which is IMO the ONLY for of oversteer an FWD car should show.

Now go into a tight corner slowly but nail the throttle on the way out and see what happens, the back end starts coming round under power, this is VERY wrong, not only is there nothing other than the sideways force of the corner acting on the backend as it is being "dragged" round the corner, but ALL the weight is now being transfered to the back wheels as on acceleration the weight is shifting to the back of the car, which will give the backend more grip.

As for the R5 bit, what I was getting at is that I have driven a FWD R5 Turbo in real life, as well as a few other reasonable powerfull FWD cars, and none of these have ever shown this caractaristic.

This leads me to believe that the driving model for powerfull FWD cars is fudged.

I drove Focus RS in real life two weeks ago and must say this is true! This mad FWD car has QUAIFE limited slip differential and under full throttle you must very carefully hold your steering wheel, you can really feel power redistribution shaking with your wheel and very obvious thrust right INTO the corner, no understeer at all! This car is just mad and if any ends of car cannot withstand chosen speed through the corner, it's its rear end!!!

Hey folks. FWD _are_ capable of experiencing power on oversteer. It's just not in its basic nature and the suspension has to be tuned to make it really possible.

It is correct that application of power will transfer weight from the front to the rear... reducing weight and therefore traction on the front tires and moving the dynamic balance of the car in the understeer direction.

However, there are other factors that affect the dynamic balance of the car besides weight transfer. There is also the size of the tire contact patches. And these are affected by factors like camber, caster, and roll centers. It is possible to tune these elements such that the oversteer effect they create under power is actually greater than the understeer effect produced by the weight transfer. Therefore producing an oversteer condition under power.

In short... GT4 is correct.

Some FWD are setup to do this. Most are not. So unless you've driven one, you'll have never encountered it in RL.

Cars really can exhibit all manner of handling properties you wouldn't normally expect. There are many more aspects of suspension geometry than GT allows you to twiddle. And yet it does seem to model them. It's just that they can't be altered. And frankly, for many of them, any changes would totally alter the car's personality... and in a bad way if you don't really know what you're doing.

 

I think you all are arguing two slightly different points. From what i gather you are thinking he is saying by pressing the gas that the rear end spins. When actually he is just saying the rear on these cars tends to step out when pushed through a corner. It has nothing to do with mashing the gas and the rear end magically spins out.

 

^^^
Well put..I would add..NORMALLY these cars will not get loose in a corner on applying power, but under certain circumstances, adding throttle can make the end come out, especially when increasing turn input while adding throttle. This is a high power FWD car with relatively SMALL rear tires..
Stiffin up the rear enough and you can facilitate this situation.

 

yup when i took my car to the track last year on sportlines and thats it the driving instructor told me to get stiffer springs add more rear sway better tires and loose about 50 lbs in the car and this thing would be awesome and so far ive done all that

still debating on taking out rear seat next time i go hmm lol

 

I did get an alignment right after i did the swap, but did not get before/after print outs. Maybe they mis aligned it? Or maybe i should have let them settle a little longer?

 

you need to get the prinouts and did you tell them your lowered? some shops will adjust it for you and how long did you get the allignment after a day? a week ? a month lol

 

The only time I've ever had FWD cars oversteer while on at full throttle is when I would do stupid crap like put old Hoosiers on the back, and stickers on the front of my race car. You are smoking crack if you think this car oversteers on power, or your definition of oversteer is horribly skewed.

I setup my Cobalt to be as neutral as possible, and it still understeers, but you can't break the laws of physics. Do I get nice neutral slides coming out of turns if I'm booking it? Sure. Is the outside rear tire ever louder than the front? Hell no. Only time that could happen is if you loop the car.

 

If you really want to get serious about a track setup, find someone who can weigh the car at the corners. What you want is a 50/50 cross weight. The LSJs are fairly close, but they were ever slightly off, IIRC a little heavy LF/RR, but I don't have my sheet in front of me ATM, might have that backwards.

 

could have put this better myself.....we run similar suspensions aswell minus i have a bit more power but im tuned WAY down so that my car makes it through its laps. adding some new things to help keep the car cool aswell this year.

 

Mini Cooper Thread:

MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Back to the stock rear bar. Oversteer pwns me.

MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Setup Problems.

 

You can't compare the 2 cars they are totally different in everything minus the fact that they are fwd

 

i got an alignment 2 days after, i am going to go to a different shop and see what the deal is.

any advice on what settings i should run?

 

They likely toed it in, since that's factory spec. Ask them to set the fronts to zero toe. It's feels better. Other than that, are you on new tires? Worn tires, depending on the compound, feel better in the dry. Tire pressures? There's a lot to it, not just springs and a swaybar, but the stuff you got is better than stock. So if it feels worse, than there is some problem going on either with the car, or behind the steering wheel. This is hard to diagnose without actually riding with you, or seeing video.

Re: Mini. The Mini is a different platform. It's got a very short wheelbase. You'll have to be a little quicker catching it than our cars. Our cars give you an eternity to correct any slides, or provoked oversteer. However, there is one thing that's true. To provoke the car to oversteer, you still need to transfer weight forward, to lose a little grip in the back. Off camber turns are some of the worst to provoke understeer.

Regarding the pictures in that Mini thread where he's on the power while it's oversteering. Well yeah, if you back up a split second in time (no picture of it), he had to brake or lift to make that turn. He's not going into it full throttle. You're crazy if you think he can make that turn while still hard on the gas. I guarantee he lifted or hit the brakes. That's where the oversteer starts. He gets on the gas hard to catch the car, but it still continues to rotate due to inertia and car setup. There's nothing unexpected here. If he wasn't hard on the gas, the car would have looped.

You can provoke any car into oversteer. What you want to do is optimize the setup so that it's comfortable for you, and that you're not slaying the tires. As you improve your taste for the setup may change over time.

 

People here were saying "PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE".."VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS"....you want me to FIND a video or narrative specifically for the COBALT SS?..COME ON. I posted a FWD car that oversteers..and not on throttle lift off either.

 

You mean OVERSTEER
Yes, this is where I get the tail to come out on a turn nearby where I live.
As I indicated, some were saying PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE on application of power...it is in *real life*, but it can be induced under certain conditions and set ups.
Fundamentally, I would not argue with the premise that FWD cars do not power oversteer, but there are *caveats* to this.

 

sorry figured it out going with sscs also do i need to get the rack spacers also? or is the drop not lower enough?