Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Hey guys. I really need a hand here. Little frustrated with tuning haha. In a nut shell I'm running a TVS with 2.8" pulley. All my exact mods you can see under my user name if you click on my car. Anyways a good friend of mine is my tuner. He had a turbo swapped LSJ but has since moved to a new Camaro. But anywho he tuned me when I bolted my TVS on with a 10gph nozzle. I was getting knock up top so I decided to upgrade to a 14gph nozzle. I use a road dyno program just to help see if I'm losing or gaining. First with the 10gph nozzle I made 308/285. With my 14gph nozzle I was able to put way more timing into the tune but only made 305/275. After talking to a few good tuners on here to get advice they both said to ramp the timing from peak tq (mid range) which according to the road dyno is 4290rpm all the way to redline. Avoid flat spots in the timing table. I told that to my tuner but he say it doesn't matter. He said basiclly put as much timing in where you can and you're good. More timing is better. Can't seem to convince him otherwise. I'm running 11.8 afr. He said I need to lean out more because of the more meth I'm running. That's the problem why I made less power. I haven't had a chance to go out and get retuned yet. Can you guys look at both graphs and guide me and my tuner what to do if anything? If I could afford hpt I would probably just get remote tuned but it's not in the cards yet unfortunately so if you guys could give me some advise it would be greatly appreciated. Yellow is my timing curve.

308whp/285wtq 10gph Nozzle





305whp/275wtq 14gph nozzle

brycerice13

remember the road tuning program is not always accurate and can be off, or maybe you had some wheel slip so it looks like more or less power. More timing is always better until you see knock. 11.8 is a little on the rich side, so you can lean it out a little. Your timing curve at the top looks a little off like its gaining and losing timing, it should only be decreasing as RPM's increase.

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Ya I know it's not totally accurate. But even my hpt log was slower. It's because I was knocking is why it's going up and down like that.

brycerice13

So dial back the timing until you have no more knock, the key is consistency, make sure your meth is the same every time because if it slows more or less will affect things. More timing is always better, I have never heard of someone making more power with less timing. But make sure that it does not jump in timing too much. If you can get the tune send it to me and I can take a look.

40rty

Blue Lightning, Nice car man!!! Wish you the best with tuning... I'm sure that in no time you'll have the TVS cranking out some damn good power.

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

ive read that if you lean out the miderange 3k-5.5k, you can pull more timing there. truthfully though, all of this should be done on a dyno if your looking for optimum numbers. and if you did not do a before and after dyno, how do you really know if your car isnt performing where it should be? you might just be on a heartbreaker.

there is a post on rl forum that talks about leaning out the midrange. i am not sure of how safe it is, but at from 2k to about 5.5k rpm, i start at 13.5 afr and slowly drop it to 11.8. so by 4k its at like 12.8 then 5k, 12.2 and 11.8 by around 5.5k. its also been said though that if you dont take advantage of the timing that it will not be beneficial. maybe 1 to 2 hp. ill find that link

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Ugh no no. The first one was with knock. The second timing table is what I'm currently running. 14gph, no knock, more timing through the table as you can see, slower car. I think it has to do with the way the timing is layed out. But don't know enough about it.

My 50-80 mph log is slower so the car is indeed slower.

Thanks man! Sure hope so, tuning is such an art haha.

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

did you have the maf and ve redialed after adding the 14 gph?? well maf is really all that matters

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Now that's a good question i'll have to ask.

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

cause if not, your probably running richer which would cause a bit of a drop in power

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

So you see nothing wrong with the 2nd timing table lay out?

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

i paid no attention to it earlier, but the second looks much better than the first. it looks like the first was pulling timing (i guess do to the knock retard you got). but the second does not see such big dips. if you can pull 24-26 * on a tvs, thats about as good as youd do id figure

SunburstSS

iTrader: (48)

Alrighty here's my take on this mind you I'm only an amateur tuner who does this stuff for fun...

*Timing is best dialed in on a real dyno to see if adding more timing in a certain spot would increase power
*Just because you can more timing it doesn't mean your gaining power, you will reach a certain power level and adding more timing will only create unneccesary pressure inside the cylinders which can cause problems in the long run
*There's a lot of stuff in the tune that have to do with how much power you're putting down
*Also mechanical issues like vacuum leaks or belt slip

Hopefully more peeps will chime in on this

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

^ all very true. better put than i can say it too.

the timing only flatlines at 6k up. thats probably not such a bad thing. and im willing to bet that if you had your maf fully dialed, then ran the second timing table with no mechanical problems, you may not see much of an increase in hp, but the power band at midrange will look much better. i guess im trying to say that the powerband will be prettier. you also have to consider iats and outside temps in the equation as well.

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

I agree but my car was actually faster on the first timing table.

No mechanical issues that I know of. IAT's are about 130* after a pull

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

well i finally read the entire post. sorry, tired and lazy. but he is correct. adding methanol is essentially adding fuel. so your afr will decrease which will cause a decrease in power. but if youre comparing your runs now from runs when you had say 100* iats, youd be even slower.

long story short, if he redials airflow (ve and or just maf), youll make more power as itll lean out alittle more. maybe he could squeeze out more timing in the midrange if he leaned it out some there. but you wont be able to pull much more than 24 * up top from what ive read. but who knows.. 14 gph seems like a lot of methanol

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Well he retuned me for my 14gph nozzle. My afr is 11.8. 14gph does seem like a lot but it's not when you run it through a hot blower haha. By IAT's I meant IAT2 temps

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

read post 14 and 17. this is where he talks about leaning out the midrange for more timing.

http://www.******************/forums...r-hp-tq-2.html

those stars are redineforums.. i misspelled it so itd come up here lol

southal cobalt

iTrader: (3)

and btw, i would only consider myself an amateur tuner also. but theres really good info there on the rl forums. if you buy hpt, dont even bother looking here. spend time learning there and on hpt forum. no offense css

100% METH

iTrader: (3)

Get onto a real dyno and void all the variables your running into

You and your tuner havn't the slightest clue where peak cylinder pressure is hitting.
It also sounds like your tuner can't build a timing table table for the life of him.

383 stroker gave a very detailed thread on how to maximize your timing for max hp/torque. It has pictures, write ups, etc... Find the thread, show your tuner, or hire some body else.

This isn't a turbo'd LSJ, g/cyl timing is very linear, stepping downward with rpm as boost increases.
Our tables are best designed in a grouping fashion, using columns of 2.

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the info. Obviously I'm still learning or I wouldn't be making a thread. As for my tuner he's never done anything supercharged. Only turbo.

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

Send me your file (tune) I'll give you a nice setup. Midrange afr with methanol give it a 12.5afr from 3k-5k after this give it 12.0-11.8 afr 5k+. Timing wise depends on many factors, what the car takes, what kind of tune you want and etc. my timing maps start midrange 3-5k from 40-26* in different load cells spots a nice smooth ramp. Then after 5k it's 26 throughout.