helty

ok, ive driven a C6 base model vette, not supercharged.

the Z06 has the N/A 427 LS7 right?

and the rumored "Blue Devil" will be a supercharged LS7 427.

I THINK, thats how it goes. either way, the base model was impressive as hell. cruising at 70 in 2nd gear.....nice car all around

Dman

gt 500 will be significantly heavier, and at least 25-50hp under the vette

helty

stock for stock, you're 99.9% most likely right. i only say that bc the specs on the GT500 arent final yet, but i doubt it will match the Ford GT in power.

but the way the 03/04 cobras got modded, it wont be long before thoseGT500s are making 600+ hp with a pulley, exhaust and some other bolt-ons. a lot of Z06 owners arent gonna touch their cars. some will and they will make awesome power, but a lot wont. those that leave them stock will have some interesting run-ins with slightly modded GT500s.

wasey13

Man some of the things that you guys spew around as if they are facts.

C6 = 2005 and newer base vette, 400hp.
Z06 = $66k LS7 505hp,3,132lbs, just came out.
"Blue Devil" equals supercharged LS8 (or LS9[more then 7.0litres]), but will more in likely not be made.

Both the Z06 and "Blue Devil" have been ran at Nurburing. The "Blue Devil" is probably(most likely) just a GM toy or test mule to see what the next generation LSx motor can do(with boost).

Ford GT = $145k(if you are lucky) 550hp,3350lbs and has already had a major recall for the front A arms falling off the car. And they are not any faster then the Z06, slower in a lot of things.
Dodge Viper SRT-10 =$81k 500hp, 3385lbs and slower then the Z06 in almost everything.
GT500 = $45-50k and not a Z06 killer. The power might be close, but the Mustang will need a lot of help in the handling department.

Nocturn

And about 500 less LBS. Put it this way, the Viper has equal power, and only 200-300 more LBS, the Mustang will have LESS HP and even MORE weight. A Z06 kill this is not.

And more nonsence about modding yea yea yea..you can't say whos going to mod their cars or not. And even then you run the risk of blowing parts on a SC car, and loosing a warrenty on others...

Blainestang

OK, the Ford GT is faster in a straight line and isn't "slower than the Z06 in a lot of things." They are very close in everything they do, but your statement is misleading. IIRC, in one mag's test, the GT was the fastest in the 1/4 and on the track, and in the other, it was still fastest in the 1/4, but I think they had to use a pre-production mule or something like that that was significantly slower, or something like that that put the GT at a disadvantage. The mag even said it should have been much faster. Anybody remember what the deal was?
Either way, there's no evidence that the GT is "slower than the Z06 in a lot of things." They are both amazing cars and the Z06 is the better performance deal. The GT is slightly faster and has the exotic looks that some people want.

Also, No, the GT500 will not be faster than the Z06 because it weighs more, but it will have similar power. I don't care what Ford says it has for crank hp, the Ford GT makes 550+ WHP, and the GT500 will make ~450whp no matter what Ford says... give or take a little hp depending on whether it gets a roots blower or a twin screw. But still, the GT500 will not be light, so it won't be a Z06 killer w/o a few mods, and it won't hold a candle to the Z06 on a road course.

helty

i dont think a lot of Cobra owners care about voiding their warranty. and im sure the stock internals will be forged and capable of handling some high hp #s. case in point, the 03/04 cobra. secondly, im willing to bet a lot more GT500s will be modded to hell over the Z06s. admit it, the typical vette owner is a mid 40s divorcee that wont touch his car. not all, but a lot of them just wont do it. those that do mod the Z06 will have one hell of a fast car, as if its no fast enough already.

all i was comparing was a modded GT500 (wont have the Cobra name, FYI) against a stock Z06. in the twisties it wont even be close. The new gen. mustang, especially the GT500 with the huge 5.4 DOHC in the engine bay, is just plain fat. now, in a straight line, i'll say again that once some of these GT500s start getting an aftermarket, they will be able to run down a stock Z06 in a straight line. a modded Z06? no, probably not. the Z06 is superior stock for stock, so if i wanna compare a modded shelby against one of them, why cant i? just making predictions anyway. theres no final say on the #'s of the GT500 yet anyway.

beerbaron105

the c6 is the new corvette

c5- generation before the c6 which is 06+

get ur facts right

03EBZ06

Talking about the capabilities of a car that isn't even in production is waste of time. GT500 is a concept for now (yes, it will be in production), until it is produced and sold to the general public, we don't don't what it will do.

So, we don't know how GT500 will fare against C6 Z06 on a straight line and curves, therefore, comparisons cannot be made, all this talk about how GT500 will do against is BS.

wasey13

So you only read one magazine? And base all your statements off that one magazine?

Wrong, it will have the Cobra name. Its going to be called the Ford Shelby SVT GT500 Cobra Mustang +1. I don't even think Ford/Shelby/SVT knows yet what they are going to call it.

Blainestang

Well, we do know that the Z06 will be faster in every way, that the GT500 will make well over 400whp, and that it will be extremely easy to mod, just like the '03-'04's.

I'd say we know those with 99% certainty.

Blainestang

Actually, I clearly said that I read more than one, and at this point, that is the best information available. Mag racing sucks when you have real world examples, but that's not really possible with these 2 cars.

BTW, YOU are the one who claimed that the GT is "slower than the Z06 in a lot of things." I guess you have some special information that no one else has... or did you just go by magazines, too?!?!?!


Actually, the latest information says that it won't have Cobra in the name, which makes sense since the old Shelby's weren't called "Cobra" either despite the Cobra badges.

helty

they arent usingthe cobra name, thats the latest i've heard. i'll try to find the link for you.
i agree, the name is too long anyway. i mean, the Ford Shelby SVT Cobra GT500......c'mon

03EBZ06

How do you know that the GT500 will make over 400 rwhp? Have you actually dyno'ed this car? Have you tested this concept car?


Based on what? What numbers have you come up with? What track numbers have you come up with?

You see, I work in R&D dept. We design comcept combat aircraft and make predictions. Some predictions are fairly close, some aren't which we find out during the test flights. Same principle applies here. Sure manufacturers can say their concept car will put down certain amount of hp but just because they say it will doesn't it will in a real world, haven't you learned from FORD selling 290 hp Cobras that were advertised as 305 hp cars?

I'm a realist, until I see it, or people experiece with a final product, I won't take manufacturer's claim.

Blainestang

Whoa, settle down, buddy.

It's just pure logic.

Most '03 Cobra's make ~370whp, with some making 380whp, and some claiming 390whp STOCK. Also, Ford GT's are making ~550whp+.

So, you have a Roots S/C'ed 4.6 making nearly 400whp, and a Twin Screw 5.4 making 550whp.

Therefore, as a S/C 5.4, the GT500 will make somewhere between 375 and 550, depending on a few things like head flow compared to the GT, as well as whether or not it gets a Roots or Twin-Screw. Either way, the switch from a 4.6 to a 5.4 will net enough horsepower alone for the GT500 to cross over the 400whp barrier.

So, no, I haven't dyno'd a GT500.... but there is plenty of information on similar cars to make an logical estimation.

You can be a "realist" and wait until it comes out to see if it makes over 400whp, but I'll tell you right now, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that unless they make a major change (like put an entirely different engine in it), it will make 400+whp.

helty

i agree with you for the most part. and i understand those who want to be a realist.

according to kenne-bell, ford will be using an eaton 120 roots instead of the lysholm twin screw found on the GT. click on the link, bottom of the last page. i know this isnt directly from ford, but here it is anyway. they should be making some insane power #'s with the kenny bell when all is said and done.

http://kennebell.net/techinfo/ford-t...RvsLYSHOLM.pdf

03EBZ06

That's all estimation. Estimation does not equate to factual numbers.

Blainestang

Yeah, we'll see this January, I guess at the Detroit Auto show which blower the GT500 will have. I tend to believe Kenne-Bell, though, that Ford will stick with the Roots.

Either way, most '03 Cobra's are only ~30whp or less from 400whp, so it's rediculous to think that they won't pick up ~30whp when they add .8L displacement AND a larger blower.



I'm not giving actual numbers, I'm just saying that it will be over 400whp. Do you really think that adding .8L displacement AND a bigger blower is not going to add 30whp???

Yes, it's estimation, but it's a conservative, logical estimation.

If someone took an LSJ and made it a 2.4 and swapped on a larger Eaton, would you say that you won't believe it makes 20 more hp until you see it done?

If someone walked up to you with a taser and tasered you in the *****, would it hurt?... or would you actually have to do it in order to come to a logical conclusion?


You're welcome to be a "realist" and have your own opinion, but don't act like it's some outrageous claim to say that a car will pick up 30hp after being stroked and getting a bigger blower.

helty

yeah, we got it. you're a realist. im happy for you, but let us little guys have our fun and speculate

hau thai-tang was quoted as saying the new shelby cobra jdkjflhfdjfdajfakfj.......engine would put out "at least 450", but said that number could be higher after emissions, fuel economy, exhaust noise calibrations and other tuning exercises. i still wish Coletti was running SVT, but he's not. if i had to guess i'd say 450-475. they need to leave room for improvement with later model years, so i'd say 450 for the 06.

Blainestang

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're going to do, but it certainly will make a significant amount more power than the '03-04's, otherwise, with the added weight of the S197 platform, it wouldn't be any faster. I'm thinking it may even make 450whp stock, but THAT IS PURE SPECULATION. It certainly would have if it had the twin-screw, but we'll see what happens. Either way, it'll be a beast and bolt-on cars will be putting down over 500whp and KB/Whipple cars will have no trouble breaking 600whp, considering stock 12psi Ford GT's are making 550whp+.

Nocturn

Yes but as someone said before they arn't using the same Lysom supercharger...therefor the logic is flawed that it will put out the same power, also factor in drivetrain differences, the GT is mid engine..meaning no driveshaft to turn and less % lost.

Put it this way, your trying to compare a variable of a variable. Your infering that the car will make X amount of power based on X amount of mods, starting with X amount of power...Which simply doesn't follow.

Even then it's not a fair comparison because your not compareing stock cars, add in the WIDELY varying stock 03-04 Cobra times and it puts even more discredit to the argument.

Blainestang

First, let's just forget that I ever said anything about the Ford GT... you're right, that has a lot of variables. The difference between the '03 Cobra and GT500 does not, however.


Point 1: Alright, so the '03 Cobra's aren't consistent in their power output, you're right. Because of that, I used an average of 370whp, which is about right. Some make 350-something, some make 380-390whp. So, .8L of displacement and a bigger blower (M120 vs. M112) will easily add ~30whp on average, putting the GT500 above 400whp on average. Anyone who thinks .8L and a bigger blower doesn't equate to 30+whp is an idiot.

Point 2: Bolt-on '03 Cobra's (pullies, chips, exhaust, etc) can make ~500whp, so a car with more displacement and a bigger blower certainly could make over 500whp. Not a stretch, by any means.

Point 3: KB and Whipple '03 Cobra's can make 500whp easily and 600whp is not a big deal either with enough boost, so OBVIOUSLY the GT500, with more displacement and a bigger blower, should make 600whp with relative ease.


I honestly don't see what there is to argue about. Most of the claims I've made for the GT500 have been, or almost have been, done by '03 Cobra's with less displacement and the M112.

I'm getting the feeling that some of the GM guys who are direct competition for the new GT500 (GTO's and Corvette's) are getting a little nervous and don't want us talking about how powerful the GT500 will be.

I honestly don't think that anybody else would have any difficulty with these conservative estimates.

c7015

god ...you make me hate the mustang ...


thanks

TXRLU

I think ford using a supercharger on its big V-8 is like a ball player corking his bat. It just seems kinda wimpy that Ford has to use a supercharger to play w/the big boys from GM and Dodge. I guess all their $$$ for designing N/A big V-8s is being spent on all the lawsuits. They should've slapped a supercharger on the Focus and tried to grow a V-8 with cojones IMO .

Oh and I must concur w/the other person that mentioned it, that's not an 06 Z06, the headlights are pop-up and aren't flush

Nocturn

True for the most part, but the GT500 is using a different combination of blower and engine. So yes you can infer that it will make more power, im not saying it wont..but you can't say it will make so and so with such mods because you don't know what the car will do with such mods. The compression ratio may be to high to put on a smaller pulley and end up blowing head gaskets..there are alot of things to consider when modding a FI car, many of which we don't exactly know the details of so we can't say for sure. Yes im sure you will be able to mod the car, but you can mod a Z06 just as easily.

Yes more people will own the mustang, but you can't say for sure how many people will mod them.