Area47

you can't put a hp number on two degree's? since when?

im far from new to this game. come at me with more logical bullshit that what you have presented. i might give you the insight into this.

no where did i question your win. frankly. i don't care, but you comming out at saying some outlandish **** like that? come on

StreetDreamz

Since the laws of physics were established. Which, last time I checked, were around long before humans even existed. Are you trying to tell me that 2 degrees of advanced timing on my Cavalier and two degrees of advanced timing on my Redline will make the SAME power increase? Wow, god here is a new standard for bench racing I guess.

They way you are talkong, you sound pretty new to this to me.

I was making 335whp on pump gas on a 75 shot. I doubled that shot and now am running C16 with more timing. I would put it closer to 420whp.

Try2k

uh oh...

04redline0124

i know, but it was a question to you lol..because I have a 350ish whp redline, and people say I wont beat a stock c5 z06 haha..i think i would, and will find out once the car is fixed

Area47

lsj vs lsj. you're adding **** into this you don't have a ******* clue about apparently.

i have been talking lsj the entire time. you threw the caviler in there. which i give two ***** about.

what does 2 degree's of timing on an lsj do. 25 degree's vs 27.

Try2k

I'm going to go with absolutely nothing... final answer

Area47

here is a simple question

what is your afr at 27 degree's of timing.

does timing affect final afr?

these two questions will result in one outcome.

StreetDreamz

11.8 on the dot where I have it commanded off the bottle. 10.5 on the bottle, but that's at only 22 degrees.

Timing WILL affect EGT, timing WILL NOT affect AFR. If you see timing affecting your AFR, you better step back a quick second and see what's missing.

From what I have seen 2 degrees of timing between 25 and 27 on an LSJ will jump EGTs about 75 degrees, and the car will pull more smoothly.

Area47

you're not running lean enough to see any effect of running 27 degree's of timing. go ahead. strap your car down to the rollers and prove me wrong. you won't see more than 1 hp difference.


the difference being 25 to 27. not 22 to 27. even then you'll see about a 5 hp difference. majority of it comes from 22-25.

every engine has a peak timing where it breaks over and starts losing power. the lsj falls under 27 degree's.

timing does affect afr. take all of your correction off. drop the timing to 15 degree's. log it. then jump to 22 and see what it does. want further proof? get yourself a good old sbc. nothing fancy. set the carb. set the total advacne to 23. stick a sniffer in the collector. record number. turn the dizzy up to 38 total advance. record afr. it will be different.

have fun with that one.

p.s. even more powerful engines than yours run less timing. there is a reason why.

StreetDreamz

Air/fuel ratio is just that. The amount of air in relation to the amount of fuel in the metered stream.

Area47

there is other factors that play a huge role in final outcome of afr. not just air and fuel.

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

yeah, mezzano's on here.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...yno_155785.htm
put down 454whp

btw babying the car it went 12.2 @118 on shitty dr's and a 1.95 60ft
and I run pretty much dead even with him.

StreetDreamz

I understand there is a peak optimum timing advance on every engine. Fact of the matter is I see an increase in powere between 25 and 27 or else I would stick at the safer 25.

You're going to have to explain to me and 10,000s of others how you figured out timing affects AFR. Timing can't affect a total afr because the energy that comes in still has to go out in one form or another. Where does that extra energy go except heat?

You still didn't tell me how much power you actually make? Are you one of those guys striving to peak past 300whp on the stock M62?

SLoW SHO

How come I always heard that stock C5 Z06's run low 12's/high 11's at 117-119 and here are 450whp ones running 118-119mph traps?

freakta

iTrader: (1)

hmm this thread got silly and now its comming back.

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

stock rearend and clutch won't hand;e that kind of power, he was being very easy off the line as to not blow it up.
here's that run, unfortunately he was running a usal 9.60 civic lol.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/M...pvs_111851.htm

LS2guy

Thats because stock Z06's are right on par with LS2 C6's which run low 12's @ 114-116mph. They might be a very, very little bit quicker than a base C6 but should be equal to a Z51 C6.

And a 450whp C6 Zo6 should be running mid 11's @ 120+mph.

LS2guy

Actually the clutch will be just fine and so will the transaxle internals it would be the transmission case that would need to be braced.

Crill_Borsby

so whats the agrument here? i dont think the rl is faster than the zo6, but its still fast as hell.

for the timming, anyone else have any opinions, cuz i have no idea whos right or wrong

i put my stock cat back back on and didnt notice a change. someone should dyno with the stock cat-back and a performance exhaust

Area47

id like to see dyno proof of your 25 vs 27 degree's. i really would. i have proof of it.

lets put this in terms you can understand.

say you have your timing set at 38 degree's. you have the injector spray the same amount of fuel. no biggie. this is the static of the equation. not the variable. the variable is timing.

at 38 degree's btdc. the coil fires. cylinder pressure is created. after tdc the exhaust valve opens. fumes go out. wheeeeeeeeeeeee

now, what happens when you drop that timing to 15 degree's. btdc. injector still fires at the same time. cylinder pressure is lower. not all the fuel is burnt.

whats that? afr changed? oooooohhhhhhhhhhhh i think we're onto something here watson!

you're making this a lot harder than it needs to be. this is laymens terms.

in short. advance changes the amount of time it has to burn the fuel.

you didn't answer my question. so you don't get my dyno numbers. my street numbers are 290/260

im not one of those people trying to hit 300. if i wanted to hit 300 i would have stopped a long time ago

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that's what I meant lol. He doesn't have the brace in the car yet, so he didn't want to rip it apart.

StreetDreamz

A Redline actually. The stock exhaust will suffer on top end, but area under the curve is SIGNIFICANTLY increased. Which is what racing is all about, power under the curve.

Please tell me you are not being serious. Listen up genius:

If there is unburned fuel going out of the chamber, THEN THERE IS UNBURNED AIR GOING OUT OF THE CHAMBER AS WELL. The amount of fuel sprayed in relating to the amount of air can be static, but the variable with timing will be EGTs, thus heat, heat makes power, heat makes things expand, heat makes pistons move. Not air, not fuel, heat. Thermal energy. Get it yet?

And you said it wrong. Advance doesn't change the amount of time it has to burn the fuel, it changes the amount of time it has to burn THE ENTIRE MIXTURE. If you have 1 nanosecond or 5 nanoseconds the same amount of air and fuel will be burned relative to the amount of fuel and air entering. Add more fuel, AFR goes down. Add more air, AFR goes up. That simple.

If you have actually ever done your own tuning then you know one SIMPLE thing:

You adjust incoming airflow and fuel first (AFR), and timing last. It's pretty easy to tell you've just done a bunch of reading. Now come play with us in the real world some day.

If your street numbers are 290/260 then I doubt highly you've ever seen 25 degrees advanced on your car unless you're running race fuel.

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

I use to run a 2.55 pulley (21 psi) pump gas, meth injection, 25 degrees advance and made 296/274. header, dp, side exit exhaust. that was all she would give me on pump gas. also running 11.8:1 afr.

Area47

you're catching on. slowly, but you are.

my daily hit's 25 degree's of timing on 91 octane.

figure that one out genius.

my timing map is static. it doesn't change when i lean the car out.
frankly. i don't feel like dicking with it.

StreetDreamz

Whohoo, you run straight methanol injection with no water mixed in. Go you!

And your timing should not change on it's own when you "lean the car out". Granted your calc air mass will change when you adjust the maf and that will affect timing if you don't modify the tables accordingly. I have no idea what you mean when you say your timing is static? Are you trying to tell me you run the same 25 degrees at 2000rpm as you do at 7000rpm?

Are you just plain dumb or arguing for the sake of arguing? Sounds like it to me honestly.

Have you ever actually tuned a car? Or do you just read what everyone else posts and pretend it's your own knowledge with no real world experience?