SS vs. Evo
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Joined: 06-20-05
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From: Buckeye, Az
Originally Posted by illusion
Using your car for what it was built for is treating it like ****? 
I was camping on the beach and one of my friends snapped a pic of me leaving to go get some food. You are indeed a nipplehead. The funny thing is, even treating my wrx as I do, it will still last longer and have a better resale as well.
I ran a 14.1@96.3 with only a drop in filter and that was with a crap 1.93s 60', so when does the cobalt catch up,? Oh I forgot you're a big and bad street racer taking it to any speed regardless of the safety. The 06 2.5 has more torque(it's a detuned STi motor now) 4 pot brakes up front, 2 in the rear, bigger rotors, bigger wheels, different rubber, stiffer suspension. I've already seen a 14flat @98 out of an 06, with a 1.98 60'. Bigger motor, boost comes on about 600rpms sooner, doesn't fall on it's face at high rpms. So where will the cobalt come into play now? And as it stands right now, I haven't seen a single street legal cobalt that can keep up with me now, oh I note the almighty Phase 5 ran a 11.98 at 115mph and that's a dedicated race team with slicks ROFL.
And BS on the BONE STOCK SS hanging with an EVO, maybe STi seeing as it put about 25 less ponies to the ground than an EVO, If a stock one can hand you beat the driver not the car. Everyone I see saying they hung with either has some sort of modifications. $50 MBC on the EVO, WRX, or STi will cure that real quick. WRX with MBC only puts 190 to the ground(although not recommended on the 04-05 wrx, it will learn around an MBC) and weighs only slightly more than SS.
Be happy with your car, but don't for one second consider it anything more than it is. Even if it can almost hang with an EVO or STi from a roll, it's not even remotely in the same class, there's a reason they both cost more, and they both SELL MORE(Talking EVO and STi versus Cobalt SS/SC, there are plenty of other cheap cobalts).
Go drive an 06 WRX, and see if they let you test drive an EVO or STi. Your tune will change a bit.
I picture you one of the great americans that knows the US is the best country in the world but has never left it's borders. Same thing with cars. My cobalt is better, I don't need to look at anything else. Now git bak ta yer inbreedin and let the grown folks talk.
Ok I'm done. More important things to do than argue with closed minded monkeys. I came here with an open receptive mind, as I've noted many people have, but you have re-enforced my thoughts of the A-typical domestic sport compact turner. Congrats!
I was camping on the beach and one of my friends snapped a pic of me leaving to go get some food. You are indeed a nipplehead. The funny thing is, even treating my wrx as I do, it will still last longer and have a better resale as well.I ran a 14.1@96.3 with only a drop in filter and that was with a crap 1.93s 60', so when does the cobalt catch up,? Oh I forgot you're a big and bad street racer taking it to any speed regardless of the safety. The 06 2.5 has more torque(it's a detuned STi motor now) 4 pot brakes up front, 2 in the rear, bigger rotors, bigger wheels, different rubber, stiffer suspension. I've already seen a 14flat @98 out of an 06, with a 1.98 60'. Bigger motor, boost comes on about 600rpms sooner, doesn't fall on it's face at high rpms. So where will the cobalt come into play now? And as it stands right now, I haven't seen a single street legal cobalt that can keep up with me now, oh I note the almighty Phase 5 ran a 11.98 at 115mph and that's a dedicated race team with slicks ROFL.
And BS on the BONE STOCK SS hanging with an EVO, maybe STi seeing as it put about 25 less ponies to the ground than an EVO, If a stock one can hand you beat the driver not the car. Everyone I see saying they hung with either has some sort of modifications. $50 MBC on the EVO, WRX, or STi will cure that real quick. WRX with MBC only puts 190 to the ground(although not recommended on the 04-05 wrx, it will learn around an MBC) and weighs only slightly more than SS.
Be happy with your car, but don't for one second consider it anything more than it is. Even if it can almost hang with an EVO or STi from a roll, it's not even remotely in the same class, there's a reason they both cost more, and they both SELL MORE(Talking EVO and STi versus Cobalt SS/SC, there are plenty of other cheap cobalts).
Go drive an 06 WRX, and see if they let you test drive an EVO or STi. Your tune will change a bit.
I picture you one of the great americans that knows the US is the best country in the world but has never left it's borders. Same thing with cars. My cobalt is better, I don't need to look at anything else. Now git bak ta yer inbreedin and let the grown folks talk.
Ok I'm done. More important things to do than argue with closed minded monkeys. I came here with an open receptive mind, as I've noted many people have, but you have re-enforced my thoughts of the A-typical domestic sport compact turner. Congrats!
Member
Joined: 08-04-05
Posts: 229
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From: ??????
Originally Posted by codyss
Why what did I do wrong?
Is this a Subaru site?
Is this a Mitsubishi site?
I am not wrong for sticking up for my Cobalt SS since this is Cobaltss.net It seems everyone who comes here says everything on there car is better. They alway have an excuse, well fine than vs your car against my $30K 2002 Camaro SS I'll beat you in the 1/4, top speed, Auto-X.................
Anyone who is offended by me either don't know what they are taliking about or they idolize the characters from The Fast And The Furious.
Is this a Subaru site?
Is this a Mitsubishi site?
I am not wrong for sticking up for my Cobalt SS since this is Cobaltss.net It seems everyone who comes here says everything on there car is better. They alway have an excuse, well fine than vs your car against my $30K 2002 Camaro SS I'll beat you in the 1/4, top speed, Auto-X.................
Anyone who is offended by me either don't know what they are taliking about or they idolize the characters from The Fast And The Furious.
Now I realize that this comparison is not the end all and be all of the argument, but the guy is one of the best auto X "CAMARO" drivers in the nation, so I'm having a hard time believing youre any better than him.
Can you please provide a link to your AUTO X scores so I can see how youre doing. If you so desire I would gladly link you to his scores. Something tells my your not going to be able to provide anything to back this up!
See A STOCK, STU - WHERE IS YOUR CAR? I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IF YOU COULD BEAT ANY STI/EVO YOU WOULD BE IN HERE SOMEWHERE! There are a couple of SS's but not a whole lot! I only counted one finishing in front of the EVO/STI's!
New Member
Joined: 08-03-05
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: New York
Originally Posted by illusion
Using your car for what it was built for is treating it like ****? I was camping on the beach and one of my friends snapped a pic of me leaving to go get some food. You are indeed a nipplehead. The funny thing is, even treating my wrx as I do, it will still last longer and have a better resale as well.
I ran a 14.1@96.3 with only a drop in filter and that was with a crap 1.93s 60', so when does the cobalt catch up,? Oh I forgot you're a big and bad street racer taking it to any speed regardless of the safety. The 06 2.5 has more torque(it's a detuned STi motor now) 4 pot brakes up front, 2 in the rear, bigger rotors, bigger wheels, different rubber, stiffer suspension. I've already seen a 14flat @98 out of an 06, with a 1.98 60'. Bigger motor, boost comes on about 600rpms sooner, doesn't fall on it's face at high rpms. So where will the cobalt come into play now? And as it stands right now, I haven't seen a single street legal cobalt that can keep up with me now, oh I note the almighty Phase 5 ran a 11.98 at 115mph and that's a dedicated race team with slicks ROFL.
And BS on the BONE STOCK SS hanging with an EVO, maybe STi seeing as it put about 25 less ponies to the ground than an EVO, If a stock one can hand you beat the driver not the car. Everyone I see saying they hung with either has some sort of modifications. $50 MBC on the EVO, WRX, or STi will cure that real quick. WRX with MBC only puts 190 to the ground(although not recommended on the 04-05 wrx, it will learn around an MBC) and weighs only slightly more than SS.
Be happy with your car, but don't for one second consider it anything more than it is. Even if it can almost hang with an EVO or STi from a roll, it's not even remotely in the same class, there's a reason they both cost more, and they both SELL MORE(Talking EVO and STi versus Cobalt SS/SC, there are plenty of other cheap cobalts).
Go drive an 06 WRX, and see if they let you test drive an EVO or STi. Your tune will change a bit.
I picture you one of the great americans that knows the US is the best country in the world but has never left it's borders. Same thing with cars. My cobalt is better, I don't need to look at anything else. Now git bak ta yer inbreedin and let the grown folks talk.
Ok I'm done. More important things to do than argue with closed minded monkeys. I came here with an open receptive mind, as I've noted many people have, but you have re-enforced my thoughts of the A-typical domestic sport compact turner. Congrats!
I was camping on the beach and one of my friends snapped a pic of me leaving to go get some food. You are indeed a nipplehead. The funny thing is, even treating my wrx as I do, it will still last longer and have a better resale as well.I ran a 14.1@96.3 with only a drop in filter and that was with a crap 1.93s 60', so when does the cobalt catch up,? Oh I forgot you're a big and bad street racer taking it to any speed regardless of the safety. The 06 2.5 has more torque(it's a detuned STi motor now) 4 pot brakes up front, 2 in the rear, bigger rotors, bigger wheels, different rubber, stiffer suspension. I've already seen a 14flat @98 out of an 06, with a 1.98 60'. Bigger motor, boost comes on about 600rpms sooner, doesn't fall on it's face at high rpms. So where will the cobalt come into play now? And as it stands right now, I haven't seen a single street legal cobalt that can keep up with me now, oh I note the almighty Phase 5 ran a 11.98 at 115mph and that's a dedicated race team with slicks ROFL.
And BS on the BONE STOCK SS hanging with an EVO, maybe STi seeing as it put about 25 less ponies to the ground than an EVO, If a stock one can hand you beat the driver not the car. Everyone I see saying they hung with either has some sort of modifications. $50 MBC on the EVO, WRX, or STi will cure that real quick. WRX with MBC only puts 190 to the ground(although not recommended on the 04-05 wrx, it will learn around an MBC) and weighs only slightly more than SS.
Be happy with your car, but don't for one second consider it anything more than it is. Even if it can almost hang with an EVO or STi from a roll, it's not even remotely in the same class, there's a reason they both cost more, and they both SELL MORE(Talking EVO and STi versus Cobalt SS/SC, there are plenty of other cheap cobalts).
Go drive an 06 WRX, and see if they let you test drive an EVO or STi. Your tune will change a bit.
I picture you one of the great americans that knows the US is the best country in the world but has never left it's borders. Same thing with cars. My cobalt is better, I don't need to look at anything else. Now git bak ta yer inbreedin and let the grown folks talk.
Ok I'm done. More important things to do than argue with closed minded monkeys. I came here with an open receptive mind, as I've noted many people have, but you have re-enforced my thoughts of the A-typical domestic sport compact turner. Congrats!
Dont' bother, I got sucked into a stupid argument on the e46 fanatics forum about the M3 and Sti. Like you I lurk on alot of other forums because I love all cars. Only reason I chime in is to check fanboyism before it gets out of control. One guy claimed he beat a stage 2 Sti with his stock m3 by a car length. I like where the Cobalt SS is going and the ecotech is amazing when it comes to it's potential with that said end of discussion.
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Joined: 05-12-05
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From: Nebraska
Maybe, I have only had my SS on a road course twice at the Mid America Motorplex. With my Hoosier Comps bolted up my Camaro was pretty easy to get around the track.
But like any of this matters, nor is this any kind of " Fanboy " ranting. That's great that your EVO's and STi's are good track performers and have better brakes. If your cars are so much better and cost $30K why pick on wimpy little $23K Cobalts?
Why does everyone have an excuse for everything?
If we weren't really a threat to your EVO/STi supremacy you wouldn't be here.
But like any of this matters, nor is this any kind of " Fanboy " ranting. That's great that your EVO's and STi's are good track performers and have better brakes. If your cars are so much better and cost $30K why pick on wimpy little $23K Cobalts?
Why does everyone have an excuse for everything?
If we weren't really a threat to your EVO/STi supremacy you wouldn't be here.
Member
Joined: 08-04-05
Posts: 229
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From: ??????
Originally Posted by codyss
Maybe, I have only had my SS on a road course twice at the Mid America Motorplex. With my Hoosier Comps bolted up my Camaro was pretty easy to get around the track.
But like any of this matters, nor is this any kind of " Fanboy " ranting. That's great that your EVO's and STi's are good track performers and have better brakes. If your cars are so much better and cost $30K why pick on wimpy little $23K Cobalts?
Why does everyone have an excuse for everything?
If we weren't really a threat to your EVO/STi supremacy you wouldn't be here.
But like any of this matters, nor is this any kind of " Fanboy " ranting. That's great that your EVO's and STi's are good track performers and have better brakes. If your cars are so much better and cost $30K why pick on wimpy little $23K Cobalts?
Why does everyone have an excuse for everything?
If we weren't really a threat to your EVO/STi supremacy you wouldn't be here.
Nothing but endless trash comes running out of your mouth, but never once do you provide anything to back it up. If youve only driven the car 2x around a road course, you can rest assured knowing that youre not going to be beating any STI/EVOs around a track. The race would be close between the three cars (given very talented drivers), but if everyone is doing their jobs, the EVO and STI are going to win.
As for the ź in your Camaro. The numbers Ive seen seem to indicate that its a drivers race, perhaps leaning towards the Camaro, but far from an automatic win every time.
For me the top end has no meaning. Its a race that requires very little skill, and is very dangerous because it must be performed on the streets. I think its funny that the top end has become such a big deal since the EVO and STI came on to the scene. I guess a lot of car owners got sick of losing all the time, and hence we have everyone on those sites talking about it.
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Joined: 08-03-05
Posts: 21
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From: New York
Originally Posted by pkskull77
What makes you think I'm here because I think the SS is a threat? When did I ever imply that I thought my car was superior? Im here because people like you are rather amusing. You have to be one of the biggest fan boys I have ever met, and although your dribble can be irritating, I usually get a good laugh in the end.
Nothing but endless trash comes running out of your mouth, but never once do you provide anything to back it up. If youve only driven the car 2x around a road course, you can rest assured knowing that youre not going to be beating any STI/EVOs around a track. The race would be close between the three cars (given very talented drivers), but if everyone is doing their jobs, the EVO and STI are going to win.
As for the ź in your Camaro. The numbers Ive seen seem to indicate that its a drivers race, perhaps leaning towards the Camaro, but far from an automatic win every time.
For me the top end has no meaning. Its a race that requires very little skill, and is very dangerous because it must be performed on the streets. I think its funny that the top end has become such a big deal since the EVO and STI came on to the scene. I guess a lot of car owners got sick of losing all the time, and hence we have everyone on those sites talking about it.
Nothing but endless trash comes running out of your mouth, but never once do you provide anything to back it up. If youve only driven the car 2x around a road course, you can rest assured knowing that youre not going to be beating any STI/EVOs around a track. The race would be close between the three cars (given very talented drivers), but if everyone is doing their jobs, the EVO and STI are going to win.
As for the ź in your Camaro. The numbers Ive seen seem to indicate that its a drivers race, perhaps leaning towards the Camaro, but far from an automatic win every time.
For me the top end has no meaning. Its a race that requires very little skill, and is very dangerous because it must be performed on the streets. I think its funny that the top end has become such a big deal since the EVO and STI came on to the scene. I guess a lot of car owners got sick of losing all the time, and hence we have everyone on those sites talking about it.
I'll 2nd that! I don't know about anyone else but I drive slower than 80 mph 99percent of the time. Top end means nothing to me and my car is tuned and modded for response and low and mid grunt. But to each his own!
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Joined: 07-11-05
Posts: 6
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From: Souther California
Wow I've noticed that in this forum people easily get pulled into off topic arguments, I must admit I have also been guilty of this. Still seriously though, I do not understand where half of you get your information from, sometimes it is just way off and I wish that before getting into an argument about something, you atleast take the time to research about it before spouting out unfactual evidence.
The EVO is only fast because of AWD-
Wrong, the EVO is quick and takes off very quickly from a stop because of AWD, it is fast because depending on the dyno it puts down anywhere from 220-250WHP. It also depends on the year, most EVOs that people run into are 03 models, by far the worst model year of the EVO. The 04 model year is slightly better, but the 05 is where the EVO really shines. The 05 EVO is by far the best model year of the EVO VIII and maybe the best ever for the EVO platform. The scary part is that the EVO IX so far is turning out to be even better than the 05, stock form the EVO IX is slightly quicker or on par with the 05 EVO VIII, but tuning the IX is where the IX is really been impressive. It's still to early since the IX has only been out for like a month in the States, but early returns are simply amazing. Also the EVO lack of top end power, has more to do with gearing of the 5-Speed than the AWD system slowing it down. MR models which have a 6-Speed routinely pull about a good 2 cars on GSR and RS models at higher speeds, due to the better gearing for the 6-Speed on the MR vs. the 5-Speeds on the GSR/RS models. Although again this depends on the year, the 03 by far suffers the most from this gearing deffiency, but the EVO gets better the newer the year.
The EVO is not slow on the top end, it's just that many owners do not really understand their EVOs. The usual culprit of bad driving (from a roll), is holding onto to revs to long on a stock EVO. The stock turbo starts to really run out of steam close to redline, and many unknowing EVO owners like to take thier EVOs slightly past redline before shifting. That's one of the reasons why EVO owners do so good with basic bolt-ons, the mods not only give huge increases in power, but it also helps the power match their driving skills or abilities. With mods such as a flash, the stock turbo is now holding onto the power longer and the EVO owner is now not hurting himself so much by holding onto the revs to long.
Also I find way to many people having unrealistic expectations of what cars like the EVO and STi should do from a roll. I've already mentioned the gearing issues, but have some of you really not noticed that the EVO puts down approx. 230-250WHP on most dyno jets. The car weighs around 3200Lbs. I mean the EVO is not slow by any means in stock form, but it's no freeway king. I mean what do some of you expect from a 3200Lb car putting down 230-250WHP, what do I expect, 100-103mph trap speeds, which the EVO routinely puts out. Some models have trapped higher, say a 05 EVO VIII recently ran a 13.0@105mph. He then dynoed his car to see what she was putting down and made 255-260WHP on a dyno jet. You see it's not very difficult to understand, it's pretty simple. The Cobalt SS are putting down what 200-220WHP and weigh around 3000Lbs, I would expect a SS to be able to hang with an EVO from a roll no doubt. Depending on what model year EVO you raced, it's possible that a Cobalt could even beat an EVO stock for stock from a roll. It's all depends, no two stock cars are the same, often same model cars dyno very different. Meaning a lower factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 201WHP (stock) could meet up with a higher factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 248WHP (stock) and that EVO would blow the doors off that SS. Then again, the scenerio could be different with a higher factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 216WHP (stock) could meet up with a lower factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 231WHP and honestly that would be damn close race and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the VIII lost in this scenerio.
Last thing, the Camaro SS is not even close to the all around performance of the EVO VIII. Drive both cars and you will easily tell the difference. I'm not like others that assumes muscle cars are only good drag racing, that is untrue, the muscle cars also have always been decent handling vehicles, especially models like the Corvette Z06 and Mustang Cobra R, two of the best handling vehicles of all time. Regardless, saying that a Camaro SS all around performance is as good as EVO VIII is truly unfactual, and clear indication of biasm. I'm not calling the SS a bad performance car, it's not, but the EVO VIII is just easily the better performance car. The SS is a faster car stock for stock, from a roll the SS should easily put multiple car lengths on an EVO VIII stock for stock. But other than that EVO VIII dominates the performance, the EVO is lighter, it has much better brakes (come on now, the EVO sports massive Brembo brakes stock). The EVO is not only brakes better than the Camaro SS it brakes better than most supercars out that, even cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360 Modena can not match the EVOs braking power. The EVO also is the better handler, sorry i've driven both cars repeatedly and it only takes about 30 seconds to realize that the EVO is a much better handling vehicle. The slalom numbers and skidpad numbers also support this and something that really can't be measured is the control the EVO gives you when really pushed and the steering is so quick it's amazing, you point and the EVO goes. The AWD allows amazing control and the stock tires are like claws on the asphalt. The Camaro SS isn't even close. Sh*t the 05 Mustang GT is a better handling car than the Camaro SS.
I'm sorry about the long post but I've grown tired of these mis-conceptions about a very awesome car.
The EVO is only fast because of AWD-
Wrong, the EVO is quick and takes off very quickly from a stop because of AWD, it is fast because depending on the dyno it puts down anywhere from 220-250WHP. It also depends on the year, most EVOs that people run into are 03 models, by far the worst model year of the EVO. The 04 model year is slightly better, but the 05 is where the EVO really shines. The 05 EVO is by far the best model year of the EVO VIII and maybe the best ever for the EVO platform. The scary part is that the EVO IX so far is turning out to be even better than the 05, stock form the EVO IX is slightly quicker or on par with the 05 EVO VIII, but tuning the IX is where the IX is really been impressive. It's still to early since the IX has only been out for like a month in the States, but early returns are simply amazing. Also the EVO lack of top end power, has more to do with gearing of the 5-Speed than the AWD system slowing it down. MR models which have a 6-Speed routinely pull about a good 2 cars on GSR and RS models at higher speeds, due to the better gearing for the 6-Speed on the MR vs. the 5-Speeds on the GSR/RS models. Although again this depends on the year, the 03 by far suffers the most from this gearing deffiency, but the EVO gets better the newer the year.
The EVO is not slow on the top end, it's just that many owners do not really understand their EVOs. The usual culprit of bad driving (from a roll), is holding onto to revs to long on a stock EVO. The stock turbo starts to really run out of steam close to redline, and many unknowing EVO owners like to take thier EVOs slightly past redline before shifting. That's one of the reasons why EVO owners do so good with basic bolt-ons, the mods not only give huge increases in power, but it also helps the power match their driving skills or abilities. With mods such as a flash, the stock turbo is now holding onto the power longer and the EVO owner is now not hurting himself so much by holding onto the revs to long.
Also I find way to many people having unrealistic expectations of what cars like the EVO and STi should do from a roll. I've already mentioned the gearing issues, but have some of you really not noticed that the EVO puts down approx. 230-250WHP on most dyno jets. The car weighs around 3200Lbs. I mean the EVO is not slow by any means in stock form, but it's no freeway king. I mean what do some of you expect from a 3200Lb car putting down 230-250WHP, what do I expect, 100-103mph trap speeds, which the EVO routinely puts out. Some models have trapped higher, say a 05 EVO VIII recently ran a 13.0@105mph. He then dynoed his car to see what she was putting down and made 255-260WHP on a dyno jet. You see it's not very difficult to understand, it's pretty simple. The Cobalt SS are putting down what 200-220WHP and weigh around 3000Lbs, I would expect a SS to be able to hang with an EVO from a roll no doubt. Depending on what model year EVO you raced, it's possible that a Cobalt could even beat an EVO stock for stock from a roll. It's all depends, no two stock cars are the same, often same model cars dyno very different. Meaning a lower factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 201WHP (stock) could meet up with a higher factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 248WHP (stock) and that EVO would blow the doors off that SS. Then again, the scenerio could be different with a higher factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 216WHP (stock) could meet up with a lower factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 231WHP and honestly that would be damn close race and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the VIII lost in this scenerio.
Last thing, the Camaro SS is not even close to the all around performance of the EVO VIII. Drive both cars and you will easily tell the difference. I'm not like others that assumes muscle cars are only good drag racing, that is untrue, the muscle cars also have always been decent handling vehicles, especially models like the Corvette Z06 and Mustang Cobra R, two of the best handling vehicles of all time. Regardless, saying that a Camaro SS all around performance is as good as EVO VIII is truly unfactual, and clear indication of biasm. I'm not calling the SS a bad performance car, it's not, but the EVO VIII is just easily the better performance car. The SS is a faster car stock for stock, from a roll the SS should easily put multiple car lengths on an EVO VIII stock for stock. But other than that EVO VIII dominates the performance, the EVO is lighter, it has much better brakes (come on now, the EVO sports massive Brembo brakes stock). The EVO is not only brakes better than the Camaro SS it brakes better than most supercars out that, even cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360 Modena can not match the EVOs braking power. The EVO also is the better handler, sorry i've driven both cars repeatedly and it only takes about 30 seconds to realize that the EVO is a much better handling vehicle. The slalom numbers and skidpad numbers also support this and something that really can't be measured is the control the EVO gives you when really pushed and the steering is so quick it's amazing, you point and the EVO goes. The AWD allows amazing control and the stock tires are like claws on the asphalt. The Camaro SS isn't even close. Sh*t the 05 Mustang GT is a better handling car than the Camaro SS.
I'm sorry about the long post but I've grown tired of these mis-conceptions about a very awesome car.
New Member
Joined: 07-11-05
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Souther California
There are a couple other of assumptions that just really nerve me. One is the fact that so many people assume that the EVO and/or Cobalt SS are always driven by equal drivers. The EVO like so many other cars, has it's fair share of poor drivers. I read once that somebody saw an EVO run 15s and was like I thought EVOs were faster than that. Oh come on, the one Cobalt SS I saw racing at Fontana, ran in the 16s, what did I think, what a poor driver. I mean if driven properly on a decent track, the EVO is perfectly capable of running 13.0-13.5@100-104mph. This also depends on the model and year. The Cobalt SS driven to it's full potential and on a decent track should run a 14.4-14.8@98-100mph.
I also cannot stand it when people assume that the EVO is nothing without the AWD system, look don't get me wrong, the AWD system on the EVO is very important, but the EVO would still be fast with out. Just look at the GSX and GST Eclipse. Yes from a stop the GSX has the advantage, but from a roll it is a drivers race. One has AWD and one is FWD, same car. The EVO without AWD would run if driven correctly a high 13s/low 14s@102-106MPH. Why do I say this, well, it's no mystery that the AWD can take a little bit of the already underrated power of the EVO, take it away and the EVO VIII would lose less power to the drivetrain. The power is there, even with AWD, the EVO is still making very good power and the AWD has very little to do with 100mph+ trap speeds, that's power. The EVO with out AWD would dyno higher to the wheels and probably trap higher, but it would sacrifice the traction off the line, which helps to EVO to achieve very quick 1/4 mile times.
I know I am way off topic, but trying to clear up any mis-conceptions.
I also cannot stand it when people assume that the EVO is nothing without the AWD system, look don't get me wrong, the AWD system on the EVO is very important, but the EVO would still be fast with out. Just look at the GSX and GST Eclipse. Yes from a stop the GSX has the advantage, but from a roll it is a drivers race. One has AWD and one is FWD, same car. The EVO without AWD would run if driven correctly a high 13s/low 14s@102-106MPH. Why do I say this, well, it's no mystery that the AWD can take a little bit of the already underrated power of the EVO, take it away and the EVO VIII would lose less power to the drivetrain. The power is there, even with AWD, the EVO is still making very good power and the AWD has very little to do with 100mph+ trap speeds, that's power. The EVO with out AWD would dyno higher to the wheels and probably trap higher, but it would sacrifice the traction off the line, which helps to EVO to achieve very quick 1/4 mile times.
I know I am way off topic, but trying to clear up any mis-conceptions.
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Joined: 09-17-05
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From: Near St. Louis
Originally Posted by kriswenmich
Last thing, the Camaro SS is not even close to the all around performance of the EVO VIII. Drive both cars and you will easily tell the difference. I'm not like others that assumes muscle cars are only good drag racing, that is untrue, the muscle cars also have always been decent handling vehicles, especially models like the Corvette Z06 and Mustang Cobra R, two of the best handling vehicles of all time. Regardless, saying that a Camaro SS all around performance is as good as EVO VIII is truly unfactual, and clear indication of biasm. I'm not calling the SS a bad performance car, it's not, but the EVO VIII is just easily the better performance car. The SS is a faster car stock for stock, from a roll the SS should easily put multiple car lengths on an EVO VIII stock for stock. But other than that EVO VIII dominates the performance, the EVO is lighter, it has much better brakes (come on now, the EVO sports massive Brembo brakes stock). The EVO is not only brakes better than the Camaro SS it brakes better than most supercars out that, even cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360 Modena can not match the EVOs braking power. The EVO also is the better handler, sorry i've driven both cars repeatedly and it only takes about 30 seconds to realize that the EVO is a much better handling vehicle. The slalom numbers and skidpad numbers also support this and something that really can't be measured is the control the EVO gives you when really pushed and the steering is so quick it's amazing, you point and the EVO goes. The AWD allows amazing control and the stock tires are like claws on the asphalt. The Camaro SS isn't even close. Sh*t the 05 Mustang GT is a better handling car than the Camaro SS.
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Joined: 06-20-05
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From: Buckeye, Az
Originally Posted by kriswenmich
Wow I've noticed that in this forum people easily get pulled into off topic arguments, I must admit I have also been guilty of this. Still seriously though, I do not understand where half of you get your information from, sometimes it is just way off and I wish that before getting into an argument about something, you atleast take the time to research about it before spouting out unfactual evidence.
The EVO is only fast because of AWD-
Wrong, the EVO is quick and takes off very quickly from a stop because of AWD, it is fast because depending on the dyno it puts down anywhere from 220-250WHP. It also depends on the year, most EVOs that people run into are 03 models, by far the worst model year of the EVO. The 04 model year is slightly better, but the 05 is where the EVO really shines. The 05 EVO is by far the best model year of the EVO VIII and maybe the best ever for the EVO platform. The scary part is that the EVO IX so far is turning out to be even better than the 05, stock form the EVO IX is slightly quicker or on par with the 05 EVO VIII, but tuning the IX is where the IX is really been impressive. It's still to early since the IX has only been out for like a month in the States, but early returns are simply amazing. Also the EVO lack of top end power, has more to do with gearing of the 5-Speed than the AWD system slowing it down. MR models which have a 6-Speed routinely pull about a good 2 cars on GSR and RS models at higher speeds, due to the better gearing for the 6-Speed on the MR vs. the 5-Speeds on the GSR/RS models. Although again this depends on the year, the 03 by far suffers the most from this gearing deffiency, but the EVO gets better the newer the year.
The EVO is not slow on the top end, it's just that many owners do not really understand their EVOs. The usual culprit of bad driving (from a roll), is holding onto to revs to long on a stock EVO. The stock turbo starts to really run out of steam close to redline, and many unknowing EVO owners like to take thier EVOs slightly past redline before shifting. That's one of the reasons why EVO owners do so good with basic bolt-ons, the mods not only give huge increases in power, but it also helps the power match their driving skills or abilities. With mods such as a flash, the stock turbo is now holding onto the power longer and the EVO owner is now not hurting himself so much by holding onto the revs to long.
Also I find way to many people having unrealistic expectations of what cars like the EVO and STi should do from a roll. I've already mentioned the gearing issues, but have some of you really not noticed that the EVO puts down approx. 230-250WHP on most dyno jets. The car weighs around 3200Lbs. I mean the EVO is not slow by any means in stock form, but it's no freeway king. I mean what do some of you expect from a 3200Lb car putting down 230-250WHP, what do I expect, 100-103mph trap speeds, which the EVO routinely puts out. Some models have trapped higher, say a 05 EVO VIII recently ran a 13.0@105mph. He then dynoed his car to see what she was putting down and made 255-260WHP on a dyno jet. You see it's not very difficult to understand, it's pretty simple. The Cobalt SS are putting down what 200-220WHP and weigh around 3000Lbs, I would expect a SS to be able to hang with an EVO from a roll no doubt. Depending on what model year EVO you raced, it's possible that a Cobalt could even beat an EVO stock for stock from a roll. It's all depends, no two stock cars are the same, often same model cars dyno very different. Meaning a lower factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 201WHP (stock) could meet up with a higher factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 248WHP (stock) and that EVO would blow the doors off that SS. Then again, the scenerio could be different with a higher factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 216WHP (stock) could meet up with a lower factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 231WHP and honestly that would be damn close race and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the VIII lost in this scenerio.
Last thing, the Camaro SS is not even close to the all around performance of the EVO VIII. Drive both cars and you will easily tell the difference. I'm not like others that assumes muscle cars are only good drag racing, that is untrue, the muscle cars also have always been decent handling vehicles, especially models like the Corvette Z06 and Mustang Cobra R, two of the best handling vehicles of all time. Regardless, saying that a Camaro SS all around performance is as good as EVO VIII is truly unfactual, and clear indication of biasm. I'm not calling the SS a bad performance car, it's not, but the EVO VIII is just easily the better performance car. The SS is a faster car stock for stock, from a roll the SS should easily put multiple car lengths on an EVO VIII stock for stock. But other than that EVO VIII dominates the performance, the EVO is lighter, it has much better brakes (come on now, the EVO sports massive Brembo brakes stock). The EVO is not only brakes better than the Camaro SS it brakes better than most supercars out that, even cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360 Modena can not match the EVOs braking power. The EVO also is the better handler, sorry i've driven both cars repeatedly and it only takes about 30 seconds to realize that the EVO is a much better handling vehicle. The slalom numbers and skidpad numbers also support this and something that really can't be measured is the control the EVO gives you when really pushed and the steering is so quick it's amazing, you point and the EVO goes. The AWD allows amazing control and the stock tires are like claws on the asphalt. The Camaro SS isn't even close. Sh*t the 05 Mustang GT is a better handling car than the Camaro SS.
I'm sorry about the long post but I've grown tired of these mis-conceptions about a very awesome car.
The EVO is only fast because of AWD-
Wrong, the EVO is quick and takes off very quickly from a stop because of AWD, it is fast because depending on the dyno it puts down anywhere from 220-250WHP. It also depends on the year, most EVOs that people run into are 03 models, by far the worst model year of the EVO. The 04 model year is slightly better, but the 05 is where the EVO really shines. The 05 EVO is by far the best model year of the EVO VIII and maybe the best ever for the EVO platform. The scary part is that the EVO IX so far is turning out to be even better than the 05, stock form the EVO IX is slightly quicker or on par with the 05 EVO VIII, but tuning the IX is where the IX is really been impressive. It's still to early since the IX has only been out for like a month in the States, but early returns are simply amazing. Also the EVO lack of top end power, has more to do with gearing of the 5-Speed than the AWD system slowing it down. MR models which have a 6-Speed routinely pull about a good 2 cars on GSR and RS models at higher speeds, due to the better gearing for the 6-Speed on the MR vs. the 5-Speeds on the GSR/RS models. Although again this depends on the year, the 03 by far suffers the most from this gearing deffiency, but the EVO gets better the newer the year.
The EVO is not slow on the top end, it's just that many owners do not really understand their EVOs. The usual culprit of bad driving (from a roll), is holding onto to revs to long on a stock EVO. The stock turbo starts to really run out of steam close to redline, and many unknowing EVO owners like to take thier EVOs slightly past redline before shifting. That's one of the reasons why EVO owners do so good with basic bolt-ons, the mods not only give huge increases in power, but it also helps the power match their driving skills or abilities. With mods such as a flash, the stock turbo is now holding onto the power longer and the EVO owner is now not hurting himself so much by holding onto the revs to long.
Also I find way to many people having unrealistic expectations of what cars like the EVO and STi should do from a roll. I've already mentioned the gearing issues, but have some of you really not noticed that the EVO puts down approx. 230-250WHP on most dyno jets. The car weighs around 3200Lbs. I mean the EVO is not slow by any means in stock form, but it's no freeway king. I mean what do some of you expect from a 3200Lb car putting down 230-250WHP, what do I expect, 100-103mph trap speeds, which the EVO routinely puts out. Some models have trapped higher, say a 05 EVO VIII recently ran a 13.0@105mph. He then dynoed his car to see what she was putting down and made 255-260WHP on a dyno jet. You see it's not very difficult to understand, it's pretty simple. The Cobalt SS are putting down what 200-220WHP and weigh around 3000Lbs, I would expect a SS to be able to hang with an EVO from a roll no doubt. Depending on what model year EVO you raced, it's possible that a Cobalt could even beat an EVO stock for stock from a roll. It's all depends, no two stock cars are the same, often same model cars dyno very different. Meaning a lower factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 201WHP (stock) could meet up with a higher factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 248WHP (stock) and that EVO would blow the doors off that SS. Then again, the scenerio could be different with a higher factory powered Cobalt SS which dynoed at 216WHP (stock) could meet up with a lower factory powered EVO VIII which dynoed at 231WHP and honestly that would be damn close race and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the VIII lost in this scenerio.
Last thing, the Camaro SS is not even close to the all around performance of the EVO VIII. Drive both cars and you will easily tell the difference. I'm not like others that assumes muscle cars are only good drag racing, that is untrue, the muscle cars also have always been decent handling vehicles, especially models like the Corvette Z06 and Mustang Cobra R, two of the best handling vehicles of all time. Regardless, saying that a Camaro SS all around performance is as good as EVO VIII is truly unfactual, and clear indication of biasm. I'm not calling the SS a bad performance car, it's not, but the EVO VIII is just easily the better performance car. The SS is a faster car stock for stock, from a roll the SS should easily put multiple car lengths on an EVO VIII stock for stock. But other than that EVO VIII dominates the performance, the EVO is lighter, it has much better brakes (come on now, the EVO sports massive Brembo brakes stock). The EVO is not only brakes better than the Camaro SS it brakes better than most supercars out that, even cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360 Modena can not match the EVOs braking power. The EVO also is the better handler, sorry i've driven both cars repeatedly and it only takes about 30 seconds to realize that the EVO is a much better handling vehicle. The slalom numbers and skidpad numbers also support this and something that really can't be measured is the control the EVO gives you when really pushed and the steering is so quick it's amazing, you point and the EVO goes. The AWD allows amazing control and the stock tires are like claws on the asphalt. The Camaro SS isn't even close. Sh*t the 05 Mustang GT is a better handling car than the Camaro SS.
I'm sorry about the long post but I've grown tired of these mis-conceptions about a very awesome car.
Pretty good points. It really just comes down to a generational thing. The "older" guys would still want thwe V8 for the same money, no matter how well the 4 cyl performs, and younger guys would rather own the fast 4 cyl over the V8 for the same price. Example: '03-'04 cobra vs. Evo VIII..both $34k cars new..which would you rather own?
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Joined: 05-12-05
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From: Nebraska
Sorry but a Camaro SS will out handle a 2005 Mustang GT. Maybe if the GT had more than a 195/75 R17 tire it would fair a bit better.
And speaking of my Camaro SS I paid the couple extra bucks for the SLP/Bilstien suspension so anything short of a fully equipped Saleen will not touch the handling of my car.
And speaking of my Camaro SS I paid the couple extra bucks for the SLP/Bilstien suspension so anything short of a fully equipped Saleen will not touch the handling of my car.
...good kill
I love the cobalts and love the evo's and sti's but every body says that on the awd sports cars they kick ass in a 1/4 mile because of it. This is simply not always true, my friend has a 1992 subaru SVX, it is an awd coupe, but if you put a different volatge fuse in the awd module then it will run as fwd, he does this for drag racing because it shaves half a second off of his 1/4 mile time because it is concentrating the power to 2 wheels insted of 4. Also i hate people that just drop their clutch in dig start, i raced this tard in a probe v6 and killed him (i have a base 2.2 cobalt) because he droped his clutch and i just started at my sweet spot.
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Joined: 02-26-06
Posts: 361
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From: New York
yeah bro same **** happened to me i raced this kids evo 8 off a roll around 45 and he said i got a jump on him but i couldnt even get near him and he went i guess cause he thought i was going faster but i wasnt i was just about the same speed to make it an even race and we hit it and it only lasted from 45-95 thru 3rd. I started pullin on him all thru second and then we hit third and we stayed the same and i was around half a car in front of him just like my boy whos thread this is did. and then we hit a stop light and he started tellin me that my car is pretty quick n **** and then a week later i hear him talkin about how he just got his car and hes not used to shifting with it but w.e i took him on a roll thats all i know man but props to u on ur race bro
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From: Lakeland, Fl
Originally Posted by FLCobalt
orlando has enough roads where you can hit 120 , but only after about 1 am.
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From: Cyber Space
Originally Posted by cobss187
yeah bro same **** happened to me i raced this kids evo 8 off a roll around 45 and he said i got a jump on him but i couldnt even get near him and he went i guess cause he thought i was going faster but i wasnt i was just about the same speed to make it an even race and we hit it and it only lasted from 45-95 thru 3rd. I started pullin on him all thru second and then we hit third and we stayed the same and i was around half a car in front of him just like my boy whos thread this is did. and then we hit a stop light and he started tellin me that my car is pretty quick n **** and then a week later i hear him talkin about how he just got his car and hes not used to shifting with it but w.e i took him on a roll thats all i know man but props to u on ur race bro
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Joined: 03-11-06
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by evolve
im assuming he was stock and if so i will say it again: stock 03-05 evos are slow. 3-4 bolt ons and it will no longer be slow.
what are the 1/4 mile times of stock 03-05 evo's and then 06 evo's?.....Its hard to find unmodded times....I thought I read on the evo forum that someone did 12.9 stock....
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From: Cyber Space
Originally Posted by CynicX
what are the 1/4 mile times of stock 03-05 evo's and then 06 evo's?.....Its hard to find unmodded times....I thought I read on the evo forum that someone did 12.9 stock....
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Joined: 11-22-05
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From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by CynicX
what are the 1/4 mile times of stock 03-05 evo's and then 06 evo's?.....Its hard to find unmodded times....I thought I read on the evo forum that someone did 12.9 stock....
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by heyzeus11
Since this is comparing fwd cars and awd cars dont ask quarter mile time; ask trap speeds. Stock 03-05 evos trap at around 99-104mph. What do stock SSs trap at?
I was asking what the 1/4 mile times were beause its hard to find unmodded times. If ANYTHING I'm comparing AWD to AWD...
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Joined: 12-12-05
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From: Long Island
I have driven both an evo 8 and a sc/ss and the evo pulls 10x harder than the cavalier i mean cobalt.. the only way u will pull on him is if he hit limp mode... and if he was in limp mode and u inched on him that suclks......lol
Cobalt gets
Cobalt gets