View Poll Results: Do you have problems (spike over 23=over 22). All votes are disclosed
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll
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Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,374
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
I like how he questions stuff and makes us go back and rethink. Sometimes it may seem stupid at first, but he seems to like the technical aspects of things too, which I appreciate.
Who knows... maybe we'll uncover something we hadn't thought of before. Evap Mod anybody? lol
Who knows... maybe we'll uncover something we hadn't thought of before. Evap Mod anybody? lol
What's *confusing*?
I know it's a bit arbitrary but you have to draw the line somewhere.
The previous poster said he was at 22.5 @ times..no spike above 23. His call is technically correct. That was very close..you're gonna find those in any pole.
No worries...your call was very close but technically correct. Thanks for participating
LOL...You know you can't resist
I know it's a bit arbitrary but you have to draw the line somewhere.
The previous poster said he was at 22.5 @ times..no spike above 23. His call is technically correct. That was very close..you're gonna find those in any pole.
No worries...your call was very close but technically correct. Thanks for participating
LOL...You know you can't resist
Last edited by ronn; Jul 8, 2010 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Senior Member
Joined: 05-14-08
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 1
From: around the world
my car took a **** after 6 months of holding 30psi spiking 30+... it held up good for 6 months...
did i had fun with it? YES
would i recommend doing it? NO, unless your plans are to build the motor and get a bigger turbo...
did i had fun with it? YES
would i recommend doing it? NO, unless your plans are to build the motor and get a bigger turbo...
Senior Member
Joined: 01-12-09
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Meh, I run 25 all day long. Its all in the rest of the tune too. Think about running cylinder pressures we would be running at that psi, then get an ounce of knock and yuor motor is TKO's like it just met Muhammed Ali.
I believe my engine failure (READ: possible but unconfirmed piston face overheat and fracturing 1 inch down from the top of the sleeve) was a direct result of prolonged high EGTs. I participate in track days extensively and living in Louisiana there is nothing forgiving about our heat. Then engine was otherwise in excellent shape and my boost was set at 20.5 (roughly). I don't have any mods except deletion of cat and muffler. EGT being too high may have some merit even when spoken separately from effective compression ratio.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
I believe my engine failure (READ: possible but unconfirmed piston face overheat and fracturing 1 inch down from the top of the sleeve) was a direct result of prolonged high EGTs. I participate in track days extensively and living in Louisiana there is nothing forgiving about our heat. Then engine was otherwise in excellent shape and my boost was set at 20.5 (roughly). I don't have any mods except deletion of cat and muffler. EGT being too high may have some merit even when spoken separately from effective compression ratio.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
Aside from getting stone/gravel chips and dinged windshields
, that's *one* of the reasons I'm not going to track this car. As far as EGTS, we richened the fuel (AFR) significantly (see my dyno thread post) from mid/high 12's to mid/high 11s. The car was pinging at WOT when we first put it on the dyno. Timing was also adjusted. My mantra is *safe not sorry*. IMHO, boost should be kept below 23 as well.
I believe my engine failure (READ: possible but unconfirmed piston face overheat and fracturing 1 inch down from the top of the sleeve) was a direct result of prolonged high EGTs. I participate in track days extensively and living in Louisiana there is nothing forgiving about our heat. Then engine was otherwise in excellent shape and my boost was set at 20.5 (roughly). I don't have any mods except deletion of cat and muffler. EGT being too high may have some merit even when spoken separately from effective compression ratio.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
Speaking of, I now monitor EGT before turbo about 4 1/2 inches away (only spot I could drill a hole without the probe either hitting the firewall or being turned in such a way I couldn't remove it for replacement if I had to. I spoke to some rally guys who tell me two things. One they program AFR to allow the engine to work hard AND stay in the boost but start running it richer as the temp passes the safe zone. The second thing is silicon content in factory aluminum pistons can and DOES drastically change it's strength and properties when EGTs are unmonitored and possibly too high.
So how high is too high, that I know will be the next question. From everything I know in the diesel world, for piston compositions like ours, and for the turbo itself, that magic number is 1600 degrees F on factory pistons and turbos not particularly designed to take the heat, like sleeved bearing, or even most ball bearing turbochargers aren't made to handle 1600 degrees for very long.
Rally guys, particularly evos build their engines with dry sump oil pumps, high pressure oil squirters for the pistons, windage trays, HUGE machined to accept press in sleeves, special skirted pistons with gigantic wrist pins, the works. They also run variations of water/meth injection when it is warranted.
And my disclaimer is I am not a race engine builder, nor am I an expert in all things boosted. I am however familiar with turbodiesels making alot more power than factory and know how to keep everything in check with a custom tune. I personally believe the safe zone on these engines is lower than we would prefer, but thats what pay to play means.
You're only gonna be in the other camp if you are holding over 22 OR spiking over 23.
BUMP for results summary.
Posting here and also added to my intro post for the poll.
REMINDER: TC CARS ONLY
Ok folks here's a recap and some explantions.
First off,TWO of the *YES* votes in the *Under 22/spike under 23* were cast in error. This was confirmed by both voters (they were over the 22/23 spike threshold) and they gave me permission to move them over to the YES vote in *over 22/spike over 23* column.ONE additional *YES* vote in the *Under 22/spike23* was an error and moved to the *NO* column for *Under 22*.
The results are very compelling:
NOTE: THE 2 VOTES IN ERROR ARE CHANGED IN THESE CALCULATIONS
76 Votes Total as of July 16
*40% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (20/50)
*60% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/50)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/26) **ONE VOTE IS SC CAR
*96% (TC cars only) of those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had no problems (24/25 TC cars only)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (26/76)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (50/76)
So, the majority of those voing were in the higher boost category.
I guess the #s speak for themselves. Thanks to all of you who participated. Hopefully, others will benefit from this poll.
__________________
Posting here and also added to my intro post for the poll.
REMINDER: TC CARS ONLY
Ok folks here's a recap and some explantions.
First off,TWO of the *YES* votes in the *Under 22/spike under 23* were cast in error. This was confirmed by both voters (they were over the 22/23 spike threshold) and they gave me permission to move them over to the YES vote in *over 22/spike over 23* column.ONE additional *YES* vote in the *Under 22/spike23* was an error and moved to the *NO* column for *Under 22*.
The results are very compelling:
NOTE: THE 2 VOTES IN ERROR ARE CHANGED IN THESE CALCULATIONS
76 Votes Total as of July 16
*40% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (20/50)
*60% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/50)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/26) **ONE VOTE IS SC CAR
*96% (TC cars only) of those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had no problems (24/25 TC cars only)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (26/76)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (50/76)
So, the majority of those voing were in the higher boost category.
I guess the #s speak for themselves. Thanks to all of you who participated. Hopefully, others will benefit from this poll.
__________________
Last edited by ronn; Jul 17, 2010 at 01:20 AM.
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Joined: 04-12-09
Posts: 4,869
Likes: 16
From: Connecticut
Hey man, no big deal but your math was a little off for one of the results. Probably just something you overlooked by accident so I just figured you might want to know.
*39% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (19/49)
*61% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/49)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/25)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (25/74)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (49/74)
*39% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (19/49)
*61% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/49)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/25)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (25/74)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (49/74)
Hey man, no big deal but your math was a little off for one of the results. Probably just something you overlooked by accident so I just figured you might want to know.
*39% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (19/49)
*61% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/49)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/25)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (25/74)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (49/74)
*39% of all those boosting [OVER 22lbs/spike over 23] had problems (19/49)
*61% of all those boosting [Over 22lbs/spike over 23] had no problems (30/49)
*8% of all those boosting [UNDER 22lbs/spike under 23] had problems (2/25)
*34% of all votes cast were under 22lbs/spike under 23 (25/74)
*66% of all votes cast were over 22lbs/spike over 23 (49/74)
BUMP for updated results
REMINDER: FOR TC CARS ONLY
Last edited by ronn; Jul 17, 2010 at 01:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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