Kelu

Seems and feels doesn't prove anything, if there are no numbers shown

I agree 100% also don't forget a very important aspect, kappa owners are treated like the "rich" boys of the LNF and "served" with higher prices by the aftermarket tuners


325-340whp, I only see ONE dyno with 324whp on werk's mustang dyno

How do you define efficiency range and how you verify this on our engines?
Doesn't those 360whp just look "happy horses" rather than turbo out of efficiency?

How many were sold by werks, by approximation I know you can't say this open, because I only saw a single one presented on the internet and that one had the complaints which you are talking.

With tq only from 3200rpm up to 4200rpm only band and than dropping rapidly? I seriously doubt this is a great setup for AutoX, road race or driveability where you need as long as possible tq to accelerate all the time with minimum shifting, all judging by the werks big wheel only dyno

Seriously, I'm a Kappa guy for more than 1 year, I was about to go ahead on the big wheel upgrade but lack of real proofs on the result made me to forget about it, I don't want to spent money on something which MIGHT or is POSSIBLE to be good. I have talked with some of the kappa owners which are only few over the internet (under 10) and some are happy some are not satisfied for power/price. Many of them got their big wheel upgrade from a different vendor not werks or btf and only one had a dyno which I didn't liked at all.

Gimpster

This KO4 vs. K04+ debate going on here is very similar to the MHI EvoIII 16G vs. Forced Performance FP68HTA. Not really adding anything to the discussion, but very similar is all

FWIW... as stated, like it or not until a vendor slaps a K04++-- (whatever) on a Delta chassis and produces a favorable outcome, ... sorry it just isn't going to fly. This seems like a really resonable thing to do when asking folks to drop 1k. Until such time, all of the vendors trying to hock this solution really need to just chill out.

Stamina

Bald Turbo Freak himself from a thread long ago:

On another note. 40rty, for instance, had a k04+ that was never installed and he had no use for it after his wreck and the car being gone. I wonder what happened to it. Somebody must've bought it, and I wonder if they've dynoed or not.

mkriebs

Real world results are just a click away.

Here is an after graph from a Solstice, it dyno'd 255 beforehand, 324/348 after the compressor wheel upgrade:


And, like I said, thats a pretty conservative tune. 12 afr's, stock timing, and not a whole lot of boost (settles at 22-23).

HHRSSouth

Haha, I been keeping up with the Evo3 16g vs. FP68HTA debate also. Real world numbers just are starting to come out for the FP68HTA, still not convinced though its worth the extra $300-400.

Now post up some real world results on the nCobalt SS/TC or HHR SS that you guys have tested

Gimpster

mkriebs,

Could you please define the parameters of that dyno session a bit more. Are you saying you bolted on a K04+ to a Solstice, made no tuning changes and picked up 69 (!!!!) RWHP?

---

HHRSouth, I love FP.. they are a great company. I've owned a lot of their products in my DSM days. However if I was still into DSM's I'd just go evo3 big16 and toss some cams in there for the 400 bucks and call it a day. Or perhaps an intake manifold instead, either way you're going to really open up that top end.

mkriebs

No, because the computer will limit it to 260 ftlbs period. That was a Solstice with IC, pipes, GMPP kit, and exhaust (I believe stock DP and intake). It needs tuned for the higher airflow regardless.

raver0789

This all nonsense really. The K04+ upgrade is so you can boost higher more effective. We already know guys with the infiniboost tunes are blowing engines, so what's the point of gaining higher boost if the silicone pistons can't deal with it?

Honestly guys, our cars are freaking fast enough! I understand though, I thought it was fast when I bought it, then I got used to it, then put in GSM1, thought it was fast again, and now I'm used to it again.

Maybe just save all your dough and buy a vette....be happy with what you have, this car is beating anything in its class quite easily on just a good tune.

mkriebs

Absolutely false. While yes, we can boost higher with better efficiency, this could also save our motor. A more efficient turbo creates less heat, because you are not spinning it as fast. I think the thing that has been hurting our motors the most is the heat from overboosting the turbo, thus in short... causing the rings to expand more than intended.

Also, we are far from being able to blame the blown engines on infiniboost. There are numerous other variables that it could have been, but since none of the blown engines were being datalogged at the time, we have very little information to go from and all we have are assumptions. Yes, there is a good possibility that it could be the higher heat levels from the overspooled turbo, but there have also been numerous people running the pill mod and/or GMPP sensors, boosting 25+ for a while now.

This is also why people with big turbos can run a substantial amount more power than us stock turbo guys.

HHRSSouth

Some are just happy being stock (congrats to you), door to exit the thread is that way --->

northvibe

iTrader: (1)

well I'm interested in this, just waiting to see it done on a cobalt. Its great for people looking for like 350whp or around, keeping dd ability and hell warranty, they wouldnt even know it was upgraded unless swapping the turbo.

HHRSSouth

Well I offered up my HHR SS to slap one on and post results up with Vince from Trifecta tuning it (I already have dyno results of the GMS1 and Trifecta with full bolt ons I could compare it against), if they would throw me a discount on the K04+ upgrade, I'm guessing there not worried about it. They don't seem to get that the cobalt ss/tc and hhr ss community aren't just going to throw 1k away without real results on our platform and not the Kappa.

Time is about expired on my offer anyways, looking at a full turbo upgrade now.

mkriebs

First, we have nothing to prove, as I explained earlier. Second, how much the KO4+ costs us, there is no wiggle room for a discount.

HHRSSouth

It seems to me you do, as you can not produce any good dyno results of the K04+ on a cobalt ss/tc or hhr ss with the actual whp gains you claim. You just have speculation on what it might be on those platforms because the Kappa platforms uses the same engine.
Any ways good luck with your company (and college), I've proved my point countless times in this thread, offered to try it for you to post results to help validate your claims and you still want to be in denial about the K04+ on our platforms. Your not gonna budge on your thoughts as far as the K04+ on our platforms and neither will I, so its a dead end conversation.

mkriebs

Then do it! Order it online, since I just told you we can't budge on the price, and be the first to do it on these chassis.

Projekt

why not just swap a bigger turbo in?

why is one so attached to the hair dryer k04?

JohnnySasakiMGS

I wonder how the Atom 1 and the Atom 2 would stack up against each other. The Atom 1 used a Supercharged K20 Honda engine. The Atom 2 used the LSJ. More torque in the LSJ one of course.

mkriebs

Ding ding ding!!!! Its very good for the Kappa guys, because they are typically older, and do different things than us Delta guys do. Pretty sure I made that point. Everyone is just looking to get something for nothing. Not happening.

Proving what the turbo can do on the motor, is absolutely fine in this case. Not sure what else you need to see, haha. Brake hp is brake hp.

HHRSSouth

Thats what your not getting, the other 2 people that have had the K04+ on the Cobalt ss/tc had crummy results, why would I want to splurge the full $1k for a K04+ with crummy results. It seems to me, your comapny has more to prove and gain from a successful K04+ ran on this platform. I'm not making any money on the K04+, you would be, the only thing I would come out with is a discount on the upgrade, if the thing ran right and had the gains you say it will If not then I would still be losing money even if it was discounted.

mkriebs

Both weren't from our company. But anyway, I'm done with this. You can't see my points, so its not worth my typing.

HHRSSouth

I'm not (I'm actually looking at a turbo upgrade), but why is one so determined to make claims that aren't proven with an upgrade for the cobalt ss/tc or hhr ss. To me thats called false advertising. It just irks me to no end to make those claims because it was ran on a Kappa, thats all. I'm sure some poor sucker will come along out there and not know better and buy the K04+ upgrade and waste $ 1k for it becasue they were told it works on a different car.

mkriebs

In my original post, i said it flows enough air to support 400 bhp. Thats 40 lb/min. Thats really all I said.

Matt M

I posted about manufacturing a bolt-on turbo for the LNF over a year ago. There was not enough response to move forward with the project. That was why we went the route that we did with the replacement manifold and universal Borg Warner turbos.

The K04+ is worth about 20-25whp, which is nice when you want to keep your car similar to stock, but it is not a large power gain by any means. Having to watch the boost down low to avoid surge is a bit if a drawback as well.

mkriebs

And because the majority of Cobalt owners are looking for either much more power than the stock turbo could provide, or are happy with stock power/stock spool.

Stamina

That was also a different day in time too though, with the fueling still not figured out, for instance. It seems y'all have done very well with the path y'all went though.

A question I would have for the k04+ would be: Does the the "dip" in the safe boost level before getting past the surge-prone areas still surpass the k04 in flow?