Details of your tuned LNF
06-12-2012, 04:16 PM
#151
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yep.
no, it wasn't more than 30.
the customer gets what they want. end of discussion. error is built into every single device used for monitoring. since you seem to know everything about the cobalt, prove me wrong.
if the fuel is there, and there is zero knock and the egt's are with in my range of acceptance, there is zero issue. i remember a small group of people saying the lsj couldn't handle 30+ psi in stock form due to the same thing. guess what. i blew that one out of the water. static vs dynamic compression at peak torque. think about it.
i have a lot more testing and research than just throwing a tune on a car and calling it a day.
cylinder pressure gets bled off faster than you think.
OH how about this one for funsies. 27psi tapper to 26 at redline, stock turbo, 25 degree's of timing, full e85. hows that for cylinder pressure?!?! hmmmmm?
The point of the 30+ lbs spike is tq. Low end! What is low end tq caused from? Quick ramp with high load (boost) so that is irresponsible as a tuner.. And the other thing is you have stock maps. So you can't even see past 24-25 lbs via hptuners . A mechanical gauge can still be wrong. You wanna go based off what ye map is seeing vs Baro pressure. So yes a 30 lbs tune is irresponsible, wrong to do (unless the owner wants it) which is still irresponsible on the customers side because once they'll blow they will blame the the tune. You say your engine is fine, would you like me to tear it apart and show you the differences of what a slow ramp tune without 30 psi looks like? Cuz your pistons will have heat everywhere on the skirts and ring lands will be weak...
if the fuel is there, and there is zero knock and the egt's are with in my range of acceptance, there is zero issue. i remember a small group of people saying the lsj couldn't handle 30+ psi in stock form due to the same thing. guess what. i blew that one out of the water. static vs dynamic compression at peak torque. think about it.
i have a lot more testing and research than just throwing a tune on a car and calling it a day.
cylinder pressure gets bled off faster than you think.
OH how about this one for funsies. 27psi tapper to 26 at redline, stock turbo, 25 degree's of timing, full e85. hows that for cylinder pressure?!?! hmmmmm?
06-12-2012, 04:36 PM
#154
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the fuel is there, if you know how to get it.
whats next? people saying you shouldn't NLS on a stage 1 tune? before this crap was cam settings causing issues with people bending valves. nope. wrong. now it's "OMG 30psi tune bad"
same story by different authors.
06-12-2012, 09:18 PM
#156
Honestly, i can less if he has 0 KR. That isnt the point.. The point is STRESS that the engine is over seeing throughout the time its driven. Whats safer on the internals. 30 psi spike at 3k, or a tune that ramps to 26 slowly at 4k or more? The ramped tune will always be safer. Hitting 30 psi or more ont he stock turbo isnt doing nothing but causing heat and strenous conditions. All of matts 30 lbs tunes were around 33-35 spikes. So that is why i said it was prob more. Dart doesnt have 3 bars, he has stock. Yes a mechanical gauge is better which he has. But even those are wrong. Did you determine the boost off the 2.5 bar (which will not read past 24-25) or the mechanical gauge. I get if the customer wants somthing then thats what they get. But that should be where you sit them down and explain to them why this may be a bad desicion in the long run.
If fuel is there, and egts are within the boudaries before melting the internals. All that meansi is thats safe at that point. Doesnt mean the longitivity of the engine. Nor does it tell you the piston strenth, tensil strength, ringland strength, and etc. All the high boost spike is doing screwing the internals up. The lsj can handle 30+ But the point is how long will it last. Most cobalt owners arent Rich. In fact 80-90% of them are al kids. Which means they dont have the cash to fix somthing that breaks. Yes you need to pay to play. But thats not how the kids see it. They see it as more power, im gonna go race now and not worry about the egts, or detonation from high combustion temps, heatsoak, etc. But in the end it always comes down to the same ole thing. The pop, they blame the tuner ( which would be you, John, matt.m, etc and i.
About your funsies! The stock turbo will in fact not keep full 25 lbs by redline, more like 20-17lbs... But the efficiency of the combustion with the ramp to 26 and a taper to 25 then down to where it will fall, is very efficeint if the air can get in and gasses get out within the exhaust stroke and good cam phasing. Here is how a lot of my ful e tunes run, ramps slow to 25-26 and tapers to 25 and timing is top end 27* and midrange is 26*.
If fuel is there, and egts are within the boudaries before melting the internals. All that meansi is thats safe at that point. Doesnt mean the longitivity of the engine. Nor does it tell you the piston strenth, tensil strength, ringland strength, and etc. All the high boost spike is doing screwing the internals up. The lsj can handle 30+ But the point is how long will it last. Most cobalt owners arent Rich. In fact 80-90% of them are al kids. Which means they dont have the cash to fix somthing that breaks. Yes you need to pay to play. But thats not how the kids see it. They see it as more power, im gonna go race now and not worry about the egts, or detonation from high combustion temps, heatsoak, etc. But in the end it always comes down to the same ole thing. The pop, they blame the tuner ( which would be you, John, matt.m, etc and i.
About your funsies! The stock turbo will in fact not keep full 25 lbs by redline, more like 20-17lbs... But the efficiency of the combustion with the ramp to 26 and a taper to 25 then down to where it will fall, is very efficeint if the air can get in and gasses get out within the exhaust stroke and good cam phasing. Here is how a lot of my ful e tunes run, ramps slow to 25-26 and tapers to 25 and timing is top end 27* and midrange is 26*.
yep.
no, it wasn't more than 30.
the customer gets what they want. end of discussion. error is built into every single device used for monitoring. since you seem to know everything about the cobalt, prove me wrong.
if the fuel is there, and there is zero knock and the egt's are with in my range of acceptance, there is zero issue. i remember a small group of people saying the lsj couldn't handle 30+ psi in stock form due to the same thing. guess what. i blew that one out of the water. static vs dynamic compression at peak torque. think about it.
i have a lot more testing and research than just throwing a tune on a car and calling it a day.
cylinder pressure gets bled off faster than you think.
OH how about this one for funsies. 27psi tapper to 26 at redline, stock turbo, 25 degree's of timing, full e85. hows that for cylinder pressure?!?! hmmmmm?
no, it wasn't more than 30.
the customer gets what they want. end of discussion. error is built into every single device used for monitoring. since you seem to know everything about the cobalt, prove me wrong.
if the fuel is there, and there is zero knock and the egt's are with in my range of acceptance, there is zero issue. i remember a small group of people saying the lsj couldn't handle 30+ psi in stock form due to the same thing. guess what. i blew that one out of the water. static vs dynamic compression at peak torque. think about it.
i have a lot more testing and research than just throwing a tune on a car and calling it a day.
cylinder pressure gets bled off faster than you think.
OH how about this one for funsies. 27psi tapper to 26 at redline, stock turbo, 25 degree's of timing, full e85. hows that for cylinder pressure?!?! hmmmmm?
06-13-2012, 01:40 AM
#158
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if you really think i don't know about all of the possible outcomes, you're sadly mistaken.
every "30psi" tune i have done has been built off of a 3 bar system. so in fact i do know what boost levels it hits, even on stock sensors. even with a calculation of error built in. the time spent behind the tunes i do far exceeds what most consider to be the norm.
i personally don't like doing the 30lb tunes, which is all of 2 cars. 99% of the lnf cars i have done are 22-25 psi. nothing more. so if you think it's a normal thing i do, you need to slap yourself.
cranking 26 degree's on 25psi is no different than cranking 30psi. cylinder pressure is greater on the first than the second. self control plays into longevity on e85, not motor limits. melt down can still occur, and the window of error is a lot smaller than you think.
every "30psi" tune i have done has been built off of a 3 bar system. so in fact i do know what boost levels it hits, even on stock sensors. even with a calculation of error built in. the time spent behind the tunes i do far exceeds what most consider to be the norm.
i personally don't like doing the 30lb tunes, which is all of 2 cars. 99% of the lnf cars i have done are 22-25 psi. nothing more. so if you think it's a normal thing i do, you need to slap yourself.
cranking 26 degree's on 25psi is no different than cranking 30psi. cylinder pressure is greater on the first than the second. self control plays into longevity on e85, not motor limits. melt down can still occur, and the window of error is a lot smaller than you think.
06-13-2012, 01:21 PM
#163
:sigh:
Different spool, different efficiency, methanol, and it's all dependent on driver. If the driver doesn't see boost much it'll last longer then wot all the time...
Still not smart on a stock block if there is no plan on rebuilding or If it's a dd and the driver is always in boost.
Different spool, different efficiency, methanol, and it's all dependent on driver. If the driver doesn't see boost much it'll last longer then wot all the time...
Still not smart on a stock block if there is no plan on rebuilding or If it's a dd and the driver is always in boost.
06-13-2012, 05:35 PM
#165
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The higher the boost the higher the pressure the higher the pressure the higher the temps the greater the chance of knock. ethanol and meth reduce the chance of knock therefore you can get away with more. I dont think high boost tunes are bad. As long as they dont knock.
06-13-2012, 06:55 PM
#166
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The higher the boost the higher the pressure the higher the pressure the higher the temps the greater the chance of knock. ethanol and meth reduce the chance of knock therefore you can get away with more. I dont think high boost tunes are bad. As long as they dont knock.
06-14-2012, 06:16 AM
#168
hell the lsj is supposedly the weaker motor and infe's car is in the lowish 500whp range on a completely stock motor (minus springs and cams). but only on 25psi since he's running a billet 6262 on the thing at 25-27psi. (e85 is great lol).
06-15-2012, 11:37 AM
#169
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13.5 @ 108: 77*, 40% humidity last night.
man, my clutch must be worse than i thought, or my car is a dog. The rest of the runs were 13.6-13.8 @ 107. Everyone else were running as they were supposed to, so my car was clearly slower than it should. I ran a 13.2 @ 108 with a much more conservative tune...Just thought i would gripe a bit
man, my clutch must be worse than i thought, or my car is a dog. The rest of the runs were 13.6-13.8 @ 107. Everyone else were running as they were supposed to, so my car was clearly slower than it should. I ran a 13.2 @ 108 with a much more conservative tune...Just thought i would gripe a bit
06-15-2012, 12:08 PM
#170
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13.5 @ 108: 77*, 40% humidity last night.
man, my clutch must be worse than i thought, or my car is a dog. The rest of the runs were 13.6-13.8 @ 107. Everyone else were running as they were supposed to, so my car was clearly slower than it should. I ran a 13.2 @ 108 with a much more conservative tune...Just thought i would gripe a bit
man, my clutch must be worse than i thought, or my car is a dog. The rest of the runs were 13.6-13.8 @ 107. Everyone else were running as they were supposed to, so my car was clearly slower than it should. I ran a 13.2 @ 108 with a much more conservative tune...Just thought i would gripe a bit
06-15-2012, 05:33 PM
#171
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lol, not as good last night as before. 2.3 60ft, 9.0 1/8th, as apposed to 2.1 60ft's and 8.7-8.9 1/8th's before.
Fuel cutoff is still at stock 6300, not 6600 btw..dunno why, but it is.
Anyways, the first few runs were spinning even with partial throttle to 3rd, even with 25psi tires. Then i started to launch at 2200 and feather the clutch in 1st and 2nd which was better, but got lower times and speed...im ending in 4th gear about 100-150ft before the end.
Hopefully with new tires and clutch i will be able to have much better times, but my trap speed still sucks
Fuel cutoff is still at stock 6300, not 6600 btw..dunno why, but it is.
Anyways, the first few runs were spinning even with partial throttle to 3rd, even with 25psi tires. Then i started to launch at 2200 and feather the clutch in 1st and 2nd which was better, but got lower times and speed...im ending in 4th gear about 100-150ft before the end.
Hopefully with new tires and clutch i will be able to have much better times, but my trap speed still sucks
06-19-2012, 09:13 AM
#173
Senior Member
Your RPM limits were all 6600 except oil over temp limit and trans limp mode limit so those must be mislabeled in HP tuners because you are in normal mode. All limits 6600 now in your file but it should have been seeing 6600 the way it was.
06-19-2012, 09:54 AM
#175
Senior Member
Any codes when it misfires at WOT? It is possible that with the richer A/F the injection times are a bit long in the upper RPMs which can cause injection window misfire but it had no hiccups while tuning it and you were flogging the heck out of it.