FTW-k04R vs ZFR In need of turbo swap!!
02-10-2016, 06:29 PM
#2201
Yes I 100% agree that's why my MAF is off because I pulled the fuel from the MAF for the meth. No I don't run stock cam profiles I actually just made some smooth 7500rpm profiles I can't wait to test!! I am going to run hopefully 800 to 1000cc\min meth but for the extra help I'll have fuel lobe and opels.
7500? I hope you have valve springs in there!
02-10-2016, 06:55 PM
#2202
Senior Member
Our good buddy gmtech said it best -
"if you're going by MAF airflow, those numbers are practically meaningless. I can tune a car with a stock turbo that will show 65 lbs/min on MAF airflow. Does that mean it should be putting out around 650hp? No. MAF airflow is the actual sensor value AFTER it is run through the MAF calibration and compensation tables. VE airflow is basically the speed density/open loop calculations. Both of those can be skewed drastically"
Simply put, if you're altering fueling via MAF frequency (especially this one) and MAF correction, you are skewing (in a positive direction) the readings. This is why it cannot be compared car to car/ tune to tune. Every car/tune is different.
"if you're going by MAF airflow, those numbers are practically meaningless. I can tune a car with a stock turbo that will show 65 lbs/min on MAF airflow. Does that mean it should be putting out around 650hp? No. MAF airflow is the actual sensor value AFTER it is run through the MAF calibration and compensation tables. VE airflow is basically the speed density/open loop calculations. Both of those can be skewed drastically"
Simply put, if you're altering fueling via MAF frequency (especially this one) and MAF correction, you are skewing (in a positive direction) the readings. This is why it cannot be compared car to car/ tune to tune. Every car/tune is different.
Ported w springs just waiting to order the Stg2 cams. I have lots of guys running fuel mods, E and big turbos this year so I'll be doing a fuel flow thread to share my findings
02-10-2016, 07:10 PM
#2203
Senior Member
What things are we talking about nosediving? Just rail pressure? Anything else?
Sorry if you already mentioned this, but what are your engine mods aside from the basic airflow efficiency stuff?
02-10-2016, 07:14 PM
#2204
Senior Member
Are you asking me about rail pressure?
02-10-2016, 07:36 PM
#2205
I have no doubt in my mind that the rail pressure issue was a mixture of: my midrange being unnecessarily aggressive, 35 degree ambient temps (cool dense air + ethanol = high demand on HPFP) and my PE being a bit too rich, all adding up to excessive strain on the fuel system.
My full mod list - Modded air box w/ZZP's intake tube, catless ZZP downpipe and a resonator in place of the factory muffler. I actually have a RFL on it's way. We'll see if it has any impact on things?
02-10-2016, 07:49 PM
#2206
Senior Member
Hard to say without knowing what's what between the two runs but I'd venture to guess that the lower MAF reading run was faster (looks like you were running more timing and cooler IATs thanks to meth)
That should be fun! Looking forward to the progress.
I was referring to power itself. Just like the stocker, if you make it hit too hard in the midrange, it will fall off up top very quickly.
I have no doubt in my mind that the rail pressure issue was a mixture of: my midrange being unnecessarily aggressive, 35 degree ambient temps (cool dense air + ethanol = high demand on HPFP) and my PE being a bit too rich, all adding up to excessive strain on the fuel system.
My full mod list - Modded air box w/ZZP's intake tube, catless ZZP downpipe and a resonator in place of the factory muffler. I actually have a RFL on it's way. We'll see if it has any impact on things?
That should be fun! Looking forward to the progress.
I was referring to power itself. Just like the stocker, if you make it hit too hard in the midrange, it will fall off up top very quickly.
I have no doubt in my mind that the rail pressure issue was a mixture of: my midrange being unnecessarily aggressive, 35 degree ambient temps (cool dense air + ethanol = high demand on HPFP) and my PE being a bit too rich, all adding up to excessive strain on the fuel system.
My full mod list - Modded air box w/ZZP's intake tube, catless ZZP downpipe and a resonator in place of the factory muffler. I actually have a RFL on it's way. We'll see if it has any impact on things?
I do not expect to be able to share too much from my car since nobody I know runs meth and E on a big turbo. I am gonna try E47 see where I stand if I can do E70 I'll try cause that's what I wanna dyno on but I'll be DDing E30
Yes you have to be careful with the R on spool when running E have to watch your fuel info. What do you run in your PE table?
02-10-2016, 08:53 PM
#2208
Senior Member
On E I run .88 it's perfect I run richer on spool than you do as well
02-10-2016, 11:45 PM
#2209
Senior Member
Was asking Tman. Our setups are too differnt to be comparable as far as the rail pressure I think
I was referring to power itself. Just like the stocker, if you make it hit too hard in the midrange, it will fall off up top very quickly.
I have no doubt in my mind that the rail pressure issue was a mixture of: my midrange being unnecessarily aggressive, 35 degree ambient temps (cool dense air + ethanol = high demand on HPFP) and my PE being a bit too rich, all adding up to excessive strain on the fuel system.
My full mod list - Modded air box w/ZZP's intake tube, catless ZZP downpipe and a resonator in place of the factory muffler. I actually have a RFL on it's way. We'll see if it has any impact on things?
Understand. I'm sure the 3" exhaust will be worth 5-10 extra ponies. I'm still rocking stock catback too lol. I would like to run a 3" side dump this year if budget allows. If this turbo is as similar to the stock k04 as it sounds, I believe there can be a happy medium with a good hit just under 4k and and shifting sooner around 63-6500 or wherever it starts to fall off, but I don't know if my fuel system will be able handle that yet.This would be a roll racing based tune/setup if it keeps traction. Brake boosting is another variable to consider. Drag racing tune will probably be less picky. Idk tho, I'm not a tuning genius like you guys. I just know how to build it and drive it lol.
I was referring to power itself. Just like the stocker, if you make it hit too hard in the midrange, it will fall off up top very quickly.
I have no doubt in my mind that the rail pressure issue was a mixture of: my midrange being unnecessarily aggressive, 35 degree ambient temps (cool dense air + ethanol = high demand on HPFP) and my PE being a bit too rich, all adding up to excessive strain on the fuel system.
My full mod list - Modded air box w/ZZP's intake tube, catless ZZP downpipe and a resonator in place of the factory muffler. I actually have a RFL on it's way. We'll see if it has any impact on things?
02-11-2016, 02:03 AM
#2210
Senior Member
Was asking Tman. Our setups are too differnt to be comparable as far as the rail pressure I think
Understand. I'm sure the 3" exhaust will be worth 5-10 extra ponies. I'm still rocking stock catback too lol. I would like to run a 3" side dump this year if budget allows. If this turbo is as similar to the stock k04 as it sounds, I believe there can be a happy medium with a good hit just under 4k and and shifting sooner around 63-6500 or wherever it starts to fall off, but I don't know if my fuel system will be able handle that yet.This would be a roll racing based tune/setup if it keeps traction. Brake boosting is another variable to consider. Drag racing tune will probably be less picky. Idk tho, I'm not a tuning genius like you guys. I just know how to build it and drive it lol.
Understand. I'm sure the 3" exhaust will be worth 5-10 extra ponies. I'm still rocking stock catback too lol. I would like to run a 3" side dump this year if budget allows. If this turbo is as similar to the stock k04 as it sounds, I believe there can be a happy medium with a good hit just under 4k and and shifting sooner around 63-6500 or wherever it starts to fall off, but I don't know if my fuel system will be able handle that yet.This would be a roll racing based tune/setup if it keeps traction. Brake boosting is another variable to consider. Drag racing tune will probably be less picky. Idk tho, I'm not a tuning genius like you guys. I just know how to build it and drive it lol.
02-11-2016, 02:58 AM
#2211
Senior Member
Everyone is back on 2.24 let's get this **** going!!
02-11-2016, 04:24 AM
#2212
Senior Member
Yes yours and mine are totally different but I have tuned a lot of cars and lots or Rs so I do know a thing or 2 about your current setup. You will have enough fueling up top on e47 that's not an issue the issue is on spool. I have 2 customers that we can compare both on 67ZFR @26psi both E47 one at sea level one at 3000ft. The guy in Utah 3000ft can run his car all out 26psi e47 no issue. The guy at sea level runs out a bit up top that I had to tune for. Both guys are prob roughly 450hp.
02-11-2016, 10:52 AM
#2213
Senior Member
02-11-2016, 12:24 PM
#2214
Senior Member
Idk yet. I do not like the single additional injector design as I feel it would not distribute the fuel perfectly between all runners. Seems like cylinders 1 and 4 wouldnt see as much fuel as 2 and 3. I could be wrong.
I don't know how well this would work, but if I was to run auxiliary injectors I would rather run 2 to help distribute the fuel better which would also mean smaller injectors could be used. I just don't know if they should pulse at the same time and what not..
I don't know how well this would work, but if I was to run auxiliary injectors I would rather run 2 to help distribute the fuel better which would also mean smaller injectors could be used. I just don't know if they should pulse at the same time and what not..
02-11-2016, 08:36 PM
#2215
Senior Member
Idk yet. I do not like the single additional injector design as I feel it would not distribute the fuel perfectly between all runners. Seems like cylinders 1 and 4 wouldnt see as much fuel as 2 and 3. I could be wrong.
I don't know how well this would work, but if I was to run auxiliary injectors I would rather run 2 to help distribute the fuel better which would also mean smaller injectors could be used. I just don't know if they should pulse at the same time and what not..
I don't know how well this would work, but if I was to run auxiliary injectors I would rather run 2 to help distribute the fuel better which would also mean smaller injectors could be used. I just don't know if they should pulse at the same time and what not..
02-11-2016, 08:44 PM
#2217
Senior Member
02-12-2016, 11:52 PM
#2219
Senior Member
02-13-2016, 12:25 AM
#2220
Senior Member
02-13-2016, 12:38 AM
#2221
Senior Member
02-13-2016, 10:29 AM
#2224
Senior Member