This...my car is all stock under the hood save for GMS1 and an intake. I like that I can get a ZFR turbo and throw it in there without changing anything else, and make 75-100 whp more than I have now without even needing to increase boost. Just the fact the turbo can hold 20+ lb all the way to red line gives me a ton of top end while still being able to maintain near-stock spool and response in the midrange. I don't want to boost 30 lb and make 400+ tq at the wheels - that's when things start breaking. The car as it sits now is probably making around 260 / 300 at the wheels, and I'd rather have 360/330 and drive it another 100k than go ***** out. For my goals, I think the ZFR is the best option.

BUT, that's just me, and everyone has their own goals and ambitions.

 

Forgot the core charge as well depending what shape yours is in and the maf relocate.

Sent from my iPhone using CobaltSS

 

LoL you guys think it's all just plug and play boom!! 100hp more. You install the zfr with no tune and if you see 20-30 more hp your getting lucky...first of all, stock charge pipe break on stock turbo, how much time you think they will last with a ZFR? So yes 300+ for CP is a most on any turbo upgrade. Stock spool? Have you ran a BNR cobalt? difference is almost none, then you will anyway need a bigger intercooler or you planing to boost 20psi of fire into the engine? You told me I don't understand Cobalt's fuel problems, but you just don't seem to understand the basic of a turbo car and the engine...power range, spool, top end...all of that can be handled with a tune.

Still Tom for the goals you want, you have no need for a ZFR or even for a BNR, just tune for 24psi you get 300hp/330-340tq and that's enough. Even then!!...you will need new charge pipes!

 

Well honestly if you're bright and getting a turbo upgrade you should most likely be bolted. If not, it's just stupid. Let alone doing a turbo swap and not tuning it...

I've only actually heard or seen a handful of people break the upper charge pipe. You can run stock pipes on the zfr. If it breaks it break. Get a replacement. You don't necessarily need aftermarket unless it breaks. It's just a safety feature or a engine dress up thing.

Then again, an IC is the same way. IC is perfectly fine until around 340ish. But getting an aftermarket will help with IATs and keeping **** cooler compared to stock. My stock IC was fine until about 3-4 pulls and things started to heat up. I haven't had any problems with my zzp IC now a days though.

Sent from my iPhone using CobaltSS

 

truth....

 

93 oct. sunnoco gas..... zzp IC.. zzp CP....zzp bov..zzp DP.. hahn intake..exedy hyper single clutch.. G85.. zzp valve springs.. coustom 3" cat back w dynomax mufler..( no resonator) ... HP TUNER Grayton Rios and BLItz 19.... and advice from all of you in this forum(cobalt ss.net) thanx..

 

Sweet sweet 93

 

Dude, we're talking about prices not in general and what the turbo can do to the car not about how to modify your car. Obviously if someone is doing a turbo upgrade they should have necessary modifications. Oh and by the way, with my ZFR, I was putting down over 400whp on all stock charge pipes. Still have them too, Alerosaint can chime in. James didn't even believe me when I told him I'm on stock pipes. He's like your turbo blew before your stock pipes? LOL 29 psi on 100 octane. The point we are making is that you DO NOT need to get charge pipes for the ZFR, yes it might break but you don't need one to make it work. For the BNR or 20g, you will need one for a BOV to be fitted to make it work. And trust me Blitz, I have lots of understanding about a turbo car fuel, power range spool and top end. If I didn't, I wouldn't be arguing with you about this. So far it looks like you're the only one here on the other side of the fence that's not agreeing with me.

I'm not putting down the BNR or the 20g btw they have all shown great performance, I'm simply stating that the ZFR is the best bang for the buck. I had one, now I have a 25g. I'm not biased, just had the best of both worlds.

 

Well I got the upper pipes now lol...but yup.

 

 

Fastgti69 I don't care if you think I'm alone in my line of thinking, I still think the ZFR is not the best bang for the buck in this situation...yes!! wow you have super strong stock charge pipes, but everybody blows them up with oem turbo, "congrats" on your super charge pipes. I imagine how good the volume was inside that cheap ass oem pipe, and...!!! 400hp on 100 octane!! that's my point!!...plus 29psi!!!...what good is it!? ohh your so smart yeah...more boost is always more power to you right!? yes!! you cracked the code!!....

Easy comparison for you super smart Fastgti69....Your ZFR 29 psi 400hp on 100octane vs DaddyCollazo's 407hp at 26psi on 93 oct...after looking to this,to me!!...your ZFR will blow faster(which it did) and your engine is runing hotter and it's going to break soonerr...now...show us your dyno sheet...let's compare power curves...maybe that's where the ZFR seems "way better"(which is my point) I want the ZFR to be 800$ better than BNR!...

 

Heh, this is when things get funny cause you have no actual facts. Thank you for proving my point that charge pipes can be used and it's a cheaper solution than the others. Now I'm going to show you why a ZFR will blow a BNR.

First, I never said I had 400 hp @29 psi on 100 octane. My ZFR blew faster because 1- I had a prototype kit from ZZP, I was one of the first person to have and test this in a third party type. I had a rebuilt EFR, because it was one of the first production EFR's that were even out. BTW, my EFR number was 12. It was the 12th 6758 EFR made from what ZZP told me. It was over 2 years old when I got it. If you don't recall that's why Borg warner had to recall the EFR's and stop production because a lot of them kept blowing. As it did with me. Now here is my dyno sheet, 415whp 435 wtq @ 24psi on e47. Mind you this is on a conservative tune, and with one hell of a powerband. I'm on a slow boost ramp so I don't blow my transmission as well as my preference because I am a canyoner. Show me a dynojet dyno please of a BNR, I'd like to see that. 2871vs6758 you need a 3071 to compete with a 6758.



Now, lets get back to the topic of 100 octane and 29 psi. I ran 100 octane @ 29 psi and added the new TTR intake manifold. The 100 octane @ 29 psi made the e47@24 psi look like childsplay. I didn't have a chance to dyno or even use it as my turbo blew on the way to a 1/2 mile drag. I can say that it would easily but out 450whp and 470wtq on 100 octane 29 psi. So you keep telling yourself that the BNR is better. I'll stick to facts that I know, and have encountered in a first person point of view.

 

Fastgti69 talking to you,it's like talking to a wall, I already told you, I want the ZFR to be 800$ better than the BNR, you just saw the dyno sheet from DaddyCollazo. You say conservative tune, but your are using e47(mmmm like you would use ethanol to run 15*....right) now if we look at your dyno sheet...there is my point...a 26psi run...did 415/430 very nice, but still not good enough for me. Sure at 29psi it did great power, but didn't not lasted, proto turbo or not. Now it says yor AFR is 13.2-13.4 wow, if that's for real...that is nowhere near safe or conservative...but cool you keep breaking stuff while I keep burning rubber all the time with 20less hp than you...which I'm cool with...maybe I'm not as fast...but I'll sure have more fun with a car that doesn't break often.

 

The difference between the BNR and ZFR is not 800$. The BNR is about 2k alone without a core swap, what are you talking about? With a core swap we already talked about needing charge pipes and a bov, another 400$. Yes, look closely @ the 26 psi, that was my third run. If I did that file on my first run, I would have hit 430 easily. That's my race file that I didn't really want to dyno but I did as a last run just for fun. You can clearly see how my HP dropped 10 from the first to the second and went back up 12 hp from second to third run. Now you do the math and make a an easy estimate of where I would be on a slightly aggressive tune @ 26 psi on e47. 430whp is where I would estimate at, and looking at my graph that is where I'm running out of fuel. BTW, if you look at my build thread it will state why my AFR's are like that. The had an ass sniffer and kept blowing out after some runs and just wasn't reading right. My logs on the dyno show different AFR. Mine broke because it's an EFR that was prone to breaking. It was one of the first production EFR's. If you don't understand that, then we shouldn't even be talking. The EFR all around is a better turbo in price, performance and quality than the BNR. Last post about this, to each their own. I'm not putting you down or your set up down at all, just clearing some stuff up between us.

 

How is the BNR 2k without the core?

1200 for the turbo. 200 dollar for a BOV. I already have a CP so i can just get a flange welded. 50 bucks.

1200+200+50 is 1450. I bought a broken k04 for 100 bucks. so even WITH my core its 1550.

 

So glad you're gonna weld a flange on for a bov and have it look like butt. Also not everyone is lucky enough to get a broken k04. Even if it is usable you're possibly still looking at money to replace some pieces. They don't just gladly accept a broke turbo...

Sent from my iPhone using CobaltSS

 

Yes they do, as long as its not totally seized. If you think having a flange welded onto the injen CP will look bad, what does ZZP do? they make their pipes and then weld a flange on when someone wants one? I never said I was the one going to do it as my welding skills are terrible

I'm just saying, even with a 250 core you are still looking at 1600 or 1700 bucks for the BNR and the ZFR is 1899.

Both are great turbos, but I have yet to see 1 car put down more than 500 whp (not ZZPs claimed car) with the ZFR

 

It's all depends how resourceful you are which price would be better, but everyone is not resourceful like that.
Zfr you can literally put on your car and run...of course you gonna need a tune but that's any turbo upgrade. As far as supporting mods, like fastgti was saying, you don't NEED them but it is RECOMMENDED that you have them. For the BNR stage 2 (2871 ~400hp) you NEED a charge pipe and blow off valve. That's the only way it will work. So:

ZFR
1900
Ceramic ball bearing
Inducer 53.9
Exducer 67
Flow 49lbs

Total cost to operate. = $1900

Bnr2781(non resourceful person)
1200 w core
Non ball bearing
Inducer 53.2
Exducer 71
Flow rate ???
Charge pipe (zzp UPC w flange) 260
Bpv (zzp rial w flange) 260
Shipping out ko4 20
Total cost to operate=$1740 for the average joe

Off course there is variables as purchasing a ko4 for a core but that could be couple hundred for a decent one added in to the total cost. Like let's say average joe buys one for 200 bucks then your cost is $1940. A totally destroyed turbo would be less but not sure if bnr would accept that.

So with that the case your paying more for a $40 more for a bnr turbo.
If you send your KO4 in then you are paying $160 less for a bnr turbo than a turbo (efr) with better tech(ie ball bearings )

If the buyer is resourceful he can pay substantially less for a bnr turbo, with that said that same person can acquire the same zfr for less than a bnr setup.

All in all as far as the better buy goes for the average person my opinion is the zfr. Like in the corner store where you can buy 1 bottle of water for for 1.50, you can buy 2 of the same water on promo for 2 for 2, which is the better deal.

Either way can't go wrong

 

Your just blinded with the ZFR, not saying it's not a good turbo just not good enough for the price, you say the charge pipes are recommended...but that's the first mod everybody does, because they break on oem turbo.(except fastgit super charge pipes) Yeah it all sounds good and perfect with ZFR but that's only marketing, please be real...and yeah I always like the comparison of a ZFR car running ethanol to a 93octane one...seems very fair!!...to each their own...as this thread started...for 350-380HP that this guy wants...he doesn't need the BNR nor the ZFR...

 

With the 3 efr's that have blown in the last 60 days i would think carefully about my $2000 decision

 

Unless the car has a fuel upgrade, non of them will hit 500whp.

 

You also have to take into consideration they were all originally the first Efrs and mass produced to that then made into the zfrs. Not the revised ones.

Sent from my iPhone using CobaltSS

 

^ exactly, this did not detur me from ordering one up. all of those are true R&D turbos IMO.

 

I'm not really sure...for real don't know the information but, I think I never heard of a researched BNR or R&D BNR that broke...but again I'm not sure maybe I'm wrong.

 

Yea, pretty much. I was one of those R&D guys haha. I took the hit, and not regretting it at all. They're helping me out in this situation so it's all good.

On their site for the ZFR under the Other resources tap, the third youtube video is mine from my channel. That's how long I've had the ZFR for. It did what I expected it to do for it's sizing, and surprised me too with spool. I loved my ZFR.