Matt M

We hear it quite often in the mod car community- “I need a retune.” Getting “retuned” has somehow taken priority over diagnosing actual issues that lie elsewhere. When we suggest that the tune is not necessarily causing any of the issues that the car is having, we are usually told that everything else is fine, so it must be the ECM. I always found it strange that the blame usually ends up there, but it is certainly the most common mentality. When we suggest that there could have been a mistake made in the build or something could have been overlooked, inevitably there were several ASE certified master mechanics with 50 years experience each that helped build NASCAR engines in their spare time that were involved in the project. In response to this phenomenon, I would like to take a few minutes to share some issues that I have dealt with first hand.

First was a turbo car that was running way too rich and needed a retune. Now when I say way too rich, I mean leaving a trail of black smoke and fouling spark plugs. Of course it seemed odd that our ECM file would be that far off, but we received the ECM back for a retune. Everything in the file looked right to me, so we started asking questions and the customer found out that he had 100psi fuel pressure and could not figure out why. After asking a few more questions, I determined that the return fuel line needed to be checked for kinks or blockage. In the end, the line was blocked in some way and the issue had nothing to do with the ECM.

Second was a turbo 3800 that was a full build with a new motor that ran terribly and “needed a dyno tune.” When the car showed up at our shop, we found that the MAF calibrator was not installed despite being included in the kit and clearly labeled. This device adjusts the fueling by more than 40%! We installed it and found that the car still ran very poorly. The ignition module had been fried due to the wrong coil bolts being used. They bottomed out and the coils were loose on the module. We replaced the module (and coil bolts) and it still had a misfire on one cylinder. After troubleshooting for a bit, we pulled off the crank pulley and found a bent reluctor wheel. After repairing that, we found that the fuel pump canister had issues with the scavenge system and the car would run lean under load under ¼ tank of fuel. After fixing that, the car ran very well, but the turbo was quite laggy. We made a guess that the valve seat for the wastegate was not installed and it was correct. After installing that, the actual tune in the PCM was nearly spot on and only required minor tweaks for optimum performance.

Third was an LNF that we dyno’d at our meet this past Saturday. When it had low boost numbers and put down low power with quite a few mods and our 1.0 file on the ECM, I was asked to retune it. I looked at the scan for a few seconds and said, “It doesn’t need a tune. There is either a boost leak or the home-made intake tube is not flowing well at all.” At this point, Ryan grabbed the pressure tester and found that our competitor’s intercooler had a cracked weld and therefore leaked boost. Next, the customer chose to purchase our IC, which was installed on the spot. After returning to the dyno, the boost was higher, but there were quite a few misfires. Again I was approached about possible tuning needs because the plugs had already been replaced. I asked who had replaced the plugs and was told that a dealership did that. I then asked Ryan to pull the spark plugs and try to find something wrong with them. A few minutes later he walked back in with one LNF plug and three LSJ plugs. Somehow it appears that the super master ultra technician at the dealership with infinite experience figured it would be alright to run spark plugs that don’t even reach the combustion chamber when they are installed. Ryan installed LNF plugs and the misfires went away, the car picked up a bunch of power and the customer is happy. Now let’s consider what would have happened if this customer went to a typical car club dyno day. He would have left there making way less power than he should while being told that the problem is that ZZPs canned tuned isn’t very good. He might then proceed to try to remote tune this setup with one of many tuners on the forum. Of course it would never run right until someone stopped blaming the tune and looked for the actual problem at hand.

Now having brought up these three instances, I feel that it is important to say that all of these were issues that I have dealt with in the past week alone! There are literally hundreds of these situations that we have dealt with over the years. In most cases, people want to insist that the PCM is the cause of all of their problems. Since I believe that the actual problems lie elsewhere in most cases, I prefer to take the approach of diagnosing a mechanical issue or problem with the installation of parts before I will agree to change the way that I believe that the ECM should be set up in an effort to solve unrelated issues.

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts for today. If you read the whole thing, just try to keep it in mind next time you hear that someone’s car needs to be retuned. It might not need to have the tune modified at all. [/rambling]

Pyros777

iTrader: (4)

*Like*

Maven

iTrader: (1)

But Matt, just think how much money we could make if we could invent a way to solve mechanical issues with an electrical repair. We'd be RICH!!!!

AARON-SS-TC

iTrader: (3)

wow, i really like this. grown man talk is good. im 32 and can appreciate this...lol

EXsoccer1921

iTrader: (14)

this is why i'm proud to say you fathered my child. ...i mean car.

tomj77

iTrader: (2)

no ud be poor cause it would take alot less labour to repair then lol. i wish id live close to zzp,

padlock

iTrader: (9)

dont we all.....

sponge14

Sub'd for good info

slvrred-

iTrader: (2)

All truth and well said Matt

DiabeticKripple

iTrader: (2)

nice post

Fastgti69

Amazing. I love how such little things make the biggest differences. Others do not even have the patience or the brains to sit and figure it out. Bravo to you guys, honestly shows you're no mickey mouse shop. This is the HPF when it comes to Cobalts.

383_Stroker

iTrader: (3)

I've run into this a lot too... LOL.. Had a car with a the intake tube busted a duct taped together, running crazy lean trims... I can't imagine why...

Anyone on here that tunes for other people, knows that ANY problem that occurs after you've tuned them, becomes the tune's fault.

ItalianJoe1

iTrader: (10)

Been saying this for years. I fix so many little mechanical issues on cars, that some other 'master tech' as you said has worked on, and it makes a world of difference. Tunes don't "go bad", a good tune will work just fine with the mods you install, there might be a few more hp to be found after with a revision, but if you lost 30whp from an intercooler, it wasn't because of the tune

peachpuff

Im not getting enough grip in the corners, i need a retune!

Unfortunately this is the outcome when people don't understand anything about the mods they're putting in their cars and have no problem solving skills. Its great for business though...

breds2k

iTrader: (1)

My local tuner, john aka gremlin85 will <3 this thread.

FasterIsBetter

I didn't think as to you guys already having my tune calibrated for the maf. Thats why I assumed I needed a retune, but it was an error in which I let my father install the charge pipe on to the throttle body so he felt like he helped a lot. It was leaking around the throttle body as he didn't tighten it
enough. The car runs great now but I do want more timing added later on down the road for an E tune and a Meth daily tune.

SSlobalt

And this is the reason not everyone owns a speed shop. I would have to cut someone if I had to deal with that every day.

We get that a lot on this site, too. "I ran a boost leak test. I didn't SEE anything loose."

ATLsilverSS

iTrader: (4)

he fathered your child??? something like this......

m33pm33p

Gotta have a solid running car before you even both "tuning" rule #1 that so many people forget.

EXsoccer1921

iTrader: (14)

all i remember were candles and wine. after that its all black...

BlkWdoSS

iTrader: (7)

I know how that **** is, Ive got a guy that I tuned his Tahoe. He didnt change any mods since I tuned him but switched from his 20" wheels and tires over to 26" wheels and tires. Now he wants to know why hes losing races to ppl he beat previously and he wants me to retune him to be faster... headache.

Omiotek

iTrader: (2)

yep a lot of times theres MORE then what meets the eye. people just think its the tune thats all wrong..... a lot of times its just funky because of a problem lying underneath. better yet i love the "oh yeah my car just needs a clutch......" and the car comes in on a flatbed with no plugs in it, wiring everywhere, no turbo and all this non sense because mr ill diy because shop labors soooo much money could diy lol.

however theres also a lot of CRAP tuners out there and a lot of people that think because they pick up an hpt suite they are tuners and a crappy tune leads to a bunch of problems later down the road aswell so it can swing both ways. im sure you guys have seen quite a few junk tune files up there just like we have.

m33pm33p

racing a tahoe..

FasterIsBetter

Lol, thats like my buddy in his Silverado with Stage 2 cams. He wonders why when its hot out his truck doesn't have as much power....I had to explain to him I tuned him so that he richens as his iats raise to help keep the knock down along with reduced timing as the
air density changes, Factory, that table was blank, lol!

Matt M

This thread wasn't intended to be a response to your request for a tune. It was actually planned out over the weekend after running into so many similar situations last week. Then again, your example does apply in the end because you were leaning towards a tune before you had all of the mechanicals squared away. At least you didn't tow it up here only to have us tighten your throttle body clamp for you.