I can only speak from experience with BSR on Saab. They have a general reputation as producing good number and drivability but being a little more "aggressive" than other tuners (such as Hirsch). Even if that held true for the LNF, for those with an otherwise stock car shouldn't have any issues. Start modifying the car with other aftermarket parts without altering the tune and you might not have much headroom. But that goes for any tuning solution. At least if anyone goes that route there should be the optional tunes for mild mods from them and we have a factory wideband and good monitoring tools available.

 

It seems to me from reading some of the soltice forums that the ppc plays well with hahns upgraded cooler, but beyond that(real high flowing exhaust, no cats, or possible turbo swap) you will need a different tune.

I would not go with the ppc if you plan on any major mods down the road. but maybe a catback/high flow cat/cai/intercooler, you should be close to 300 rwhp from what I saw on the soltice forums, and they have more driveline loss then we do.

Possibly BSR will come out with a stage 2 tune for upgraded intake/exhaust someday that you can downlod to the ppc. Pretty confident they will end up with something like that down the road.

But for now the but dyno says for 1 mod that took me 30 secs and no tools, I like it. The best part being, I can put it back to stock anytime I want.

 

And before everyone goes out and starts dumping money/parts at their car, we need to do some testing on things like the stock intercooler and how it's mounted and works in the Cobalt. If the tune is identical or very close to the Kappa cars there should already be slight differences between the cars. For example with the mounting location it wouldn't surprise me if the Cobalt's intercooler is working a little more efficiently. That's something some inlet/outlet temperature and pressure comparisons would go a long way towards answering.

 

I just did mine tonight. WOW!

The butt dyno is pleased! Yeah full throttle in 1st is a joke... it breaks loose a bit from a roll in 2nd.

One thing to note. Ok... the stock boost gauge may not be completely accurate. I live in Iowa just one state away. Not to mention I'm only about an hour from the Illinois border, the state that Hahns in located.
I say that to lead to this. MY boost gauge is reading 23psi. I know that it's not unheard of, of course. But unless I missed something that's the highest I've seen on this forum with the BSR.

I'm convinced... however you want to tune it. TUNE IT!! You won't regret it!

EDIT: I was just out again for a little bit. This being my first turbo car... I have a few questions for you guys. All that I have is a drop in K&N and this tune. That's all that I plan to do so I am done. It's plenty fast for me.

What do you guys think of the reliability with this tune? I mean obviously it's going to be shortened in some areas I'm sure but it's not going to be breaking stuff left and right is it?
Does the knock sensing, etc. still protect?
Finally... lets say in the winter when it's like 5 below zero. Will the boost be regulated down a bit you think? Will the injectors keep up?

I'm excited and nervous at the same time. That seems like a LOT of power for a 2 liter. But I guess Evo's and STI's do it...

 

I swear this car is getting faster. When I orig put the tune in it was faster for sure, but the last few days I think this car has gotten even faster!

I think it may take a few days or so for the computer to let the bsr tune"settle in", but I think it is faster now than 2 weeks ago when I orig put the tune in.

Or I had some crappy gas in that first tank is all I can come up with, was still 93 but I like to run only sunaco or shell for 93, and I had some other kind in the tank I had when I put the tune in.

 

How Much Was The Ppc??

 

like 995 or something

www.turbosystem.com

 

How much has the mpg changed since the tune? If possible glhs379 could you show me the difference in power from the tuner? I believe you in the same area as me.

 

I wonder if it will work with the 2009 model.

 

I have some of the same concerns about potential damge to the engine. Is it possible for someone (like Bill) to explain the risks involved with a purchase like this? Longer term effects, etc... I'm sure if he puts up some information (good and bad) he will sell more units...

 

would like to know to im interested if it will cause damage

 

Bump for Hahns input

 

As long as you're stock the BSR flash should be perfectly safe, but just like anything that increases power over stock levels you should also expect that it is possible over the really long haul that service life of components like the stock clutch, engine mounts, etc. may be reduced. And maybe the engine or transaxle might only make it to 200k miles vice 250k miles if you keep it well maintained. Or maybe only 100k to 150k miles. Basically it doesn't appear to be a massive increase in power so it's shouldn't kill anything but it is a risk you have to take just like any power increasing modification. You're not going to get any exact answer that the flash will reduce the life of xx component by yy amount.

The only thing I could see that might not be "safe" is if you have other heavy modifications on a car that the BSR/Hahn tune isn't designed to work with. Use it as intended and if you're concerned you can always data log to watch for things like knock, running too lean, EGT's, etc. which can lead to engine problems but then again that info won't tell you of impending driveline issues. More power is almost always going to be a compromise or have a cost but that might not come to term until way down the road. Stock cars are safer but may not be as fun.

 

I still think Bill could give more technical and specific feedback. Especially if any upgrades need performed to eliminate potential issues down the road... I don't like surprises, I'd rather upgrade on the front end...

 

Completely understandable and hopefully he can chime in. I think it is a little funny someone would ask if this will damage what I'm assuming is a new, stock car. What would you expect the answer to be? "Sure, it's great. Only 25% of the otherwise stock cars we've installed it on have blown up..."
They're a company selling a product and if they have high standards then I'd expect them to only carry safe products. But like any aftermarket modification, certain parts or tunes have certain prerequisites or things you should have or should have not done. From BSR it sounds like their default tune is intended for a near stock car and has worked well with Hahn's light modifications.

And I'm in no way saying Hahn isn't, but lets say another company was selling something that wasn't completely safe and they new it. Do you think they'd tell you if they knew it wasn't and had decided to sell it anyways? Just something to think about in general when shopping for performance modifications for a new car. That's why it's always good to monitor and verify your car is running safely if you have any concerns.


Since BSR develops the tunes in-house I also wouldn't expect them or Hahn to give away technical specifics of the tune since you're paying for BSR's development and testing time to create it. Hahn already has some general info on their web page as far as boost and redline (which really doesn't tell the whole picture on power production without knowing things like ignition timing, fueling, cam timing, etc. but a lot of people do think boost = power). Bill has also answered a lot of general questions if you do a search (such as this thread).

What I'd like to know is if this is the same tune BSR developed for the Kappa LNF roadsters or if there were any changes BSR made for the FWD application. If it is indeed the exact same tune then we should be able to look at experiences the Kappa guys have had if you want some general impressions on things like drivability and to see if anyone has had an reliability issues that have shown up (none that I recall hearing about lately). If the tune is the same there would still be minor differences between the two cars such as our exhaust and intake tract but both cars should perform similar enough to get an idea how well it will work in our application (especially since there isn't a large sampling of Cobalt owners who have tried it yet).

A couple other things that could be addressed better by maybe a sticky in their vendor subsection or on their web site would include info on what modifications can or can't be used in conjunction with their default tune. For example "the car should be stock" or "it can have a cat-back exhaust but no other modifications" type of recommendations. Since their car was running an intake and exhaust I'd assume they think those are safe but clarification would be nice. Next question would be if BSR has already developed any tunes for heavier modifications yet. And how are you going to implement the "internet updates" and "tuning program" to work for the Cobalt. It seems the Hahn web site has a lot of generic BSR info on the PPC and adding some specific info for how it's going to work with the Cobalt application would be welcomed.

 

Bumping before a new thread appears: "Is there tuning out for my ss/tc hyuk hyuk?"

 

Ok, since I was the one to really begin the questioning on this thread I'll respond. First, thanks for your input. Some of it was helpful.

It is pretty obvious that there are some risks. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Clutch and driveline components mainly...

To give some examples of what I was asking about is this...
I came from an Acura RSX Type-S. The people on that forum were very good about nailing things down to what would work and wouldn't work. They knew that X amount of horsepower and you may want to upgrade the clutch... or etc. etc. One common thing was that people that got a canned tune (Hondata Reflash) were good to mod with it to a point. The biggest no-no was using a race header with the reflash. For that case it was better to get the Kpro which could be custom tuned. The problem was running lean with the RH.
I've heard people say the LNF is good for 330-340whp before it's really pushing the motor too much. I don't know if they are right, or wrong, or how credible they were, etc.

Then you throw in that GM is obviously very concerned to keep numbers at 260. But I was hoping someone with more technical expertise might speak up. Because sometimes you just never know. I saw in a magazine once a 720hp drag racing Civic using a totally stock '91 Acura Integra tranny and it worked. Some cars are a bit overbuilt, and others just enough to get buy. My RSX was a little overbuilt in some areas which was nice. But the motor mounts were soft and many people had problems there.
I haven't been familiar with GM and things to look out for since they put plastic intake manifolds on some V6 motors that would leak coolant internally.
The biggest thing perhaps is that this is my first force inducted vehicle. Maybe times have really changed that much but 130hp/liter is an insane number to me. Then with the tune, maybe 150hp/liter. To me that's just a **** ton. Do that to some other motors and it's just asking for trouble.

That's kind of where I was going with this. I wasn't asking the obvious... We all know that the more we push the numbers that reliability goes down. I was wondering if this car in general, GM, or what have you has a track record in recent years for certain things being weak or poorly designed, etc. Like the piston slap they had in the 90's...

I hope that has shed some light as to what I think most of us are asking about. If it is a similar tune then we'll have to check out the other forums I guess. But as you said, this is a different platform even with the same engine. The driveline is different.

 

I will have to respectfully disagree with canned tunes being "safe"

 

Yea, there is a huge difference between 'working' and being 'safe'.

 

yea i agree thats why im using hp tuners

 

I agree it seems GM wants to keep it at the 260 level. However I have read a few R&D articles about the SS/TC and how GM "already has the performance enhancements complete as of the completion of the car". I read that they actually "tuned" it down for retail and then planned to sell parts/accessories to bring it back to full tune. After all, how many people would pay $30k for a Cobalt when there's one right next to it for $12K? They have to make it price competitive for the market. I have a feeling we will all be smiling come November and GM speaks up about the LNF...

 

i completely agree. why would they waste their (GM) time putting such items as Forged cranks in these cars if they were so weak?? You can do 260 hp with a cast crank - but probably not 300. Just makes sense that they may be waiting for sales numbers and how well the SS/TC is recived before they go to market with their performance mods.