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-   -   LNF Throttle Body Swap Testing (https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/lnf-throttle-body-swap-testing-171566/)

Terminator2 05-18-2009 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by 1badBlueberrySC (Post 3882536)
THAT WAS NOT THE STOCK TURBO! CHeck their other thread people... this turbo runs out of breath well before 400ft/lbs

Actually it was. They took their big turbo that made 400 whp 400 wtrq. They are running a ported head on their car. Heck if my car can make 375 wrtq on the stock head. 400 wtrq is possible on 23-24 psi in the midrange. It just cannot hold the pressure much past 5k when you have the boost set that high. Shaft speed is way to fast at that point. :twothumbs

1badBlueberrySC 05-18-2009 04:22 PM

I didn't see the ported head into this equation....

ls1fbody 05-18-2009 04:23 PM

are they the first to port the LNF head?

what kind of issues does that create with the DI?

Terminator2 05-18-2009 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by 1badBlueberrySC (Post 3882578)
I didn't see the ported head into this equation....

Read one of the other posts there is someone else who posted in this thread that claims 316 whp 396 wrtq at 23 psi on the stock head. :twothumbs. That is way too much torque for the stock clutch. Anything above 350 wrtq seems to make it slip some. :thumbsdow

Matt M 05-18-2009 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by Terminator2 (Post 3882455)
You got it. Because the diameter is changed you are in effect fooling the ECM into thinking it has reached it target pressure drop when it has not. I think the bigger throttle body is tricking the ECM into thinking it has reached the point sooner so less power. IIRC it is kinda like the DALs when you mod it reaches the target airload sooner with less boost pressure needed. The air velocity is decreased compared to the stock opening because of the larger surface area an that is skewing readings. I wish I knew more. I would contact Baldturbofreak if you want to know more. He knows what happens exactly when you change the diameter of the throttle body on the LNF. :twothumbs

We verified that 100% actual throttle position is what it says. When the PCM closes the throttle a little (or a lot) for various reasons, it shows on the log as doing so. In this case, it maintains 100% throttle throughout the pass. We also regulated the MAP on the intake manifold, but it didn't seem to help, although HP numbers today have been about 6-8 higher than Saturday, so who knows.


Originally Posted by 1badBlueberrySC (Post 3882568)
The turbo cannot support 411ft/lbs...

Just ask Terminator pretty much has max'd it out... at 350whp and 375wtq

I smell somethin.......

It can and does support 411 ft lbs. If we start the pull earlier, I bet it will make a little more yet. Why are you so quick to dispute everything we say. We are in this to support the community and make these cars fast together. Stop fighting everything we do and say.

Terminator2 05-18-2009 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by Matt M (Post 3882603)
We verified that 100% actual throttle position is what it says. When the PCM closes the throttle a little (or a lot) for various reasons, it shows on the log as doing so. In this case, it maintains 100% throttle throughout the pass. We also regulated the MAP on the intake manifold, but it didn't seem to help, although HP numbers today have been about 6-8 higher than Saturday, so who knows.


It can and does support 411 ft lbs. If we start the pull earlier, I bet it will make a little more yet. Why are you so quick to dispute everything we say. We are in this to support the community and make these cars fast together. Stop fighting everything we do and say.

I guess you are finding out how tempremental the ECM on this car is. When I did my chargepipes the car ran like complete crap for the first 100 miles or so. Drive the car around for a while and see what happens. :twothumbs. It might see gains after it relearns some. 1badblueberrysc had 11* of KR showing with his new IC that went away after a few hundred miles. These things are so funny about mods.

He did not know you are running a ported head on the car. My car would easily be over 400 wtrq with your head on it. :twothumbs. Need money for the install though. I cannot do it myself unfortunately.

1badBlueberrySC 05-18-2009 04:37 PM

I'm not disputing what you said Matt... get your panties out of your butt. I didn't not see the ported head.

Goddamn read what I wrote dude!

mkriebs 05-18-2009 04:38 PM

What Are We Yelling About!?!?!

1badBlueberrySC 05-18-2009 04:39 PM

Who's yelling?

mkriebs 05-18-2009 04:40 PM

Lol... I just hope they can get this panned out. I would be interested to see what this would do on the big turbo balt... should be able to get a few more MAF lbs/min, which would be nice.

revhigh18 05-18-2009 04:59 PM

i want a ported head :(

40rty 05-18-2009 05:00 PM

Interesting!!!

steddy2112 05-18-2009 05:01 PM

Then PM them or buy one.

:lol:

This is a thread about throttle body swapping and how it apparently is failing.

Kudos for trying, but I think I will not go through a headache for 4-5mm...but hey, more vendors should do this.

revhigh18 05-18-2009 05:02 PM

how hard was it to get the head off of this car

PimpLay2 05-18-2009 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by Terminator2 (Post 3882455)
It is a pain.You have to remove the valvecover, cam chains, cams, manifold for the turbo, turbo itself, etc. It is a big job unless, and you are a master mechanic I would not attempt it.

that answer ure question revhigh

thecobaltguy 05-18-2009 06:08 PM

was the ECM programmed for the different TB that could be the reason for the loss

Terminator2 05-18-2009 07:17 PM


Originally Posted by PimpLay2 (Post 3883106)
that answer ure question revhigh

Thanks Pimp. :twothumbs

Matt M 05-18-2009 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by 1badBlueberrySC (Post 3882658)
Goddamn read what I wrote dude!

lol. likewise.

We did another pull going WOT at 40mph in 3rd gear and torque was 420 ft lbs. Going WOT that early results in closed throttle and open bypass valve at about 90mph based on the 3 second overboost. Hopefully we won't have to regulate the MAP sensors with the stock turbo.

mkriebs 05-18-2009 07:41 PM

Shouldn't you be dynoing in 4th gear, or the gear closest to a 1:1 ratio?

Terminator2 05-18-2009 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by Matt M (Post 3883717)
lol. likewise.

We did another pull going WOT at 40mph in 3rd gear and torque was 420 ft lbs. Going WOT that early results in closed throttle and open bypass valve at about 90mph based on the 3 second overboost. Hopefully we won't have to regulate the MAP sensors with the stock turbo.

Back your DALs off some. The torque will drop but at least the throttle wont slam shut after 3 seconds. Gotta sacrifice some of that torque for the sake of driveability. if I pushed mine any harder it would do the same. 400+ wtrq does nothing if the throttle slams shut on you.

MaxVQ35DE 05-18-2009 07:49 PM

I wonder if the GM upgrade will solve the overboosting issue....

PimpLay2 05-18-2009 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by MaxVQ35DE (Post 3883800)
I wonder if the GM upgrade will solve the overboosting issue....

same here... thats why ill be one of the first to get the kit on.. then just change the tune back to psykostevo's and see how it runs with the upgraded sensors

Mazdaboi318 05-18-2009 08:39 PM

can you just buy the sensors?

Matt M 05-18-2009 09:36 PM


Originally Posted by revhigh18 (Post 3882823)
how hard was it to get the head off of this car

We pulled the motor to put in the clutch, replace the head, and swap back to the stock turbo.

Swapping the head is a pretty solid days work if you take your time and double check everything.


Originally Posted by Terminator2 (Post 3883762)
Back your DALs off some. The torque will drop but at least the throttle wont slam shut after 3 seconds. Gotta sacrifice some of that torque for the sake of driveability. if I pushed mine any harder it would do the same. 400+ wtrq does nothing if the throttle slams shut on you.

We don't have DALs with the manual boost controller. We will get the boost leveled out for running this car on the street or at the track. For now, we are just pushing for higher numbers to see how everything responds.

I put the stock intake and TB back on after a few pulls today. After a few more pulls, we dyno'd again with the boost controller bumped up a little and going WOT by 30mph. Max boost was 29psi and torque hit 428 ft lbs. Here's a couple pulls starting at different RPMs to show how the boost eventually fades to the same level regardless of how the pull starts.
http://sites.commercecreators.com/fo...quemonster.bmp

Area47 05-19-2009 12:21 AM

hows the inj ms looking? pegged 6ms yet?


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