LNF Throttle Body Swap Testing
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
LNF Throttle Body Swap Testing
In our quest for more power out of our 08 SS/T, we decided to try swapping to a larger TB. I didn't expect huge gains based on past experience with forced induction TB sizing, but I was hoping to see a 2-3 HP gain. The TB we chose for the upgrade was the 2.4 LE5 TB. I don't remember the exact sizes right now, but the LE5 TB is 4 or 5 mm larger than the LNF TB. Here is a pic for comparison:
We machined an inatke to match the LE5 TB.
Current setup on my SS/T includes:
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune
When dyno testing new parts on the LNF, we use an external boost controller to keep the PCM from altering the boost level and skewing the results. After several dyno pulls in the 335-336 whp range using the stock TB, I swapped in the new intake manifold and LE5 TB. The swap was very easy and the car idles smooth and has throttle response not much different than before. Unfortunately, the dyno results were not at all what I was expecting. After 3 pulls, the best number it put down was 323 whp. There are no vacuum/boost leaks. The MAF readings decreased in correlation to the HP loss. Here is the graph:
While I realize that over-sizing the TB does not offer HP gains in many situations, this is the first time that I have witnessed a significant loss in HP from a swap of this type. I am going to look into this a little further tomorrow. I'm hoping that for some odd reason, the 2.4 TB only opens half way with the same signal that opens the LNF TB 100%. However, I'm not holding my breath, as that seems like a long-shot.
We machined an inatke to match the LE5 TB.
Current setup on my SS/T includes:
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune
When dyno testing new parts on the LNF, we use an external boost controller to keep the PCM from altering the boost level and skewing the results. After several dyno pulls in the 335-336 whp range using the stock TB, I swapped in the new intake manifold and LE5 TB. The swap was very easy and the car idles smooth and has throttle response not much different than before. Unfortunately, the dyno results were not at all what I was expecting. After 3 pulls, the best number it put down was 323 whp. There are no vacuum/boost leaks. The MAF readings decreased in correlation to the HP loss. Here is the graph:
While I realize that over-sizing the TB does not offer HP gains in many situations, this is the first time that I have witnessed a significant loss in HP from a swap of this type. I am going to look into this a little further tomorrow. I'm hoping that for some odd reason, the 2.4 TB only opens half way with the same signal that opens the LNF TB 100%. However, I'm not holding my breath, as that seems like a long-shot.
#3
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Interesting idea. Definitely staying tuned for more info...
I would imagine more airflow would be a good thing, lol. Hope it gets panned out. Have you thought of trying this on the big turbo balt?
I would imagine more airflow would be a good thing, lol. Hope it gets panned out. Have you thought of trying this on the big turbo balt?
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#14
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looks like the torque is just a boost spike. I am going to go ahead and assume the maps are clamped and your spiking the turbo in to the upper 20's to get that torque. yes/no?
#16
Senior Member
In our quest for more power out of our 08 SS/T, we decided to try swapping to a larger TB. I didn't expect huge gains based on past experience with forced induction TB sizing, but I was hoping to see a 2-3 HP gain. The TB we chose for the upgrade was the 2.4 LE5 TB. I don't remember the exact sizes right now, but the LE5 TB is 4 or 5 mm larger than the LNF TB. Here is a pic for comparison:
We machined an inatke to match the LE5 TB.
Current setup on my SS/T includes:
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune
When dyno testing new parts on the LNF, we use an external boost controller to keep the PCM from altering the boost level and skewing the results. After several dyno pulls in the 335-336 whp range using the stock TB, I swapped in the new intake manifold and LE5 TB. The swap was very easy and the car idles smooth and has throttle response not much different than before. Unfortunately, the dyno results were not at all what I was expecting. After 3 pulls, the best number it put down was 323 whp. There are no vacuum/boost leaks. The MAF readings decreased in correlation to the HP loss. Here is the graph:
While I realize that over-sizing the TB does not offer HP gains in many situations, this is the first time that I have witnessed a significant loss in HP from a swap of this type. I am going to look into this a little further tomorrow. I'm hoping that for some odd reason, the 2.4 TB only opens half way with the same signal that opens the LNF TB 100%. However, I'm not holding my breath, as that seems like a long-shot.
We machined an inatke to match the LE5 TB.
Current setup on my SS/T includes:
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune
When dyno testing new parts on the LNF, we use an external boost controller to keep the PCM from altering the boost level and skewing the results. After several dyno pulls in the 335-336 whp range using the stock TB, I swapped in the new intake manifold and LE5 TB. The swap was very easy and the car idles smooth and has throttle response not much different than before. Unfortunately, the dyno results were not at all what I was expecting. After 3 pulls, the best number it put down was 323 whp. There are no vacuum/boost leaks. The MAF readings decreased in correlation to the HP loss. Here is the graph:
While I realize that over-sizing the TB does not offer HP gains in many situations, this is the first time that I have witnessed a significant loss in HP from a swap of this type. I am going to look into this a little further tomorrow. I'm hoping that for some odd reason, the 2.4 TB only opens half way with the same signal that opens the LNF TB 100%. However, I'm not holding my breath, as that seems like a long-shot.
And no one believes that I am pushing 345 whp 375 wtrq. Glad there are others with similar numbers, and more torque too.
Last edited by Terminator2; 05-18-2009 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#17
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Having said that, yes boost is over 25psi at the start of the pull, and down to about 17 by the end of the pull.
The PCM does in fact compare the pressure readings, but what are you claiming to be the reason for the HP loss? Are you saying that the ECM closes the throttle until the pressure drop is where it would like? And if so, why would there be a loss of power instead of the same power?
Last edited by Matt M; 05-18-2009 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#20
Senior Member
Most people think that tunes are making the boost spike on these cars, which is not what happens. The actual problem is that exhaust pressures get too high for the wastegate to control boost consistently. Exhaust just pushes past the gate and boost falls off. If you roll up to 5000 RPM real slow and then go WOT, the peak HP number is 10-15 WHP higher.
Having said that, yes boost is over 25psi at the start of the pull, and down to about 17 by the end of the pull.
The PCM does in fact compare the pressure readings, but what are you claiming to be the reason for the HP loss? Are you saying that the ECM closes the throttle until the pressure drop is where it would like? And if so, why would there be a loss of power instead of the same power?
Having said that, yes boost is over 25psi at the start of the pull, and down to about 17 by the end of the pull.
The PCM does in fact compare the pressure readings, but what are you claiming to be the reason for the HP loss? Are you saying that the ECM closes the throttle until the pressure drop is where it would like? And if so, why would there be a loss of power instead of the same power?
It is a pain.You have to remove the valvecover, cam chains, cams, manifold for the turbo, turbo itself, etc. It is a big job unless, and you are a master mechanic I would not attempt it.
Last edited by Terminator2; 05-18-2009 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#22
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Current setup on my SS/T includes:
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune
ZZP airbox mod on factory airbox
AEM intake tube
Stock turbo
ZZP upper charge tube
Stock intercooler and lower charge tube
ZZP ported head
ZZP offroad downpipe
ZZP custom catback
ZZP tune