Kick ass!!!!

 

Thanks Rudy,

Question though. Increased strength in the chain will only cause stress on other components no? Such as all the bolts and tensioner and guide, causing them to fail???

 

Great, can't wait until this is available.

 

Price?

And how about an upgraded tensioner, some other company charges $150 for what is likely a stiffer internal spring and probably a drilled out oil port hole.

Also, a timing guide that isn't plastic. duh.

 

I think the chain is a great start - but I think we need an upgraded tensioner. The main tensioner bolt needs to be upgraded to a Grade 10.9 M6-1.0 30mm Dorman Bolt. And yeah, ditching the plastic guide would be nice.

But I don't think the chain alone is the complete answer. I'll be a test mule if you want. I have broken a tensioner, tensioner bolt, and the guide. Takes about a month before i'll know if your chain will hold up.

 

mine lasted 207k without any problems. no wear on the guides at all

 

I think the chain idea is a great start.

The main issue with building the head though is this: the stiffer springs don't allow the CAMs to be 'parked' properly when the engine is off. Basically, the springs push the CAMs harder than the tensioner can hold and causes slack to build between the CAMs. This is what causes that split second 'clacking' noise when you first start the engine after being off for a while. It should be said that this issue also exists in stock form but is caused by the phasers on the head going out and needing to be replaced.

At first it's not too big a deal but with time (less than a year from what I've seen in most cases) it gets worse and can even cause timing jumps. I experienced it and so have a quite a few others. Also, the slack causes 'chain slap' on the plastic guide on the intake side. With time it fails as well and ends up getting grounded up by the chain causing shavings to flow through the oil system.

Like FMSR stated, it's a cascading failure. I'd like to see this stiffened chain, a stronger tensioner and some sort of stiffened chain guide. I think all three together would help the upgraded system to work in sync as a whole, which seems to be the end result we are trying to achieve.

I for one am interested in longevity all the while making more power than stock (370-420whp avg for most on this site with upgraded turbo). Others don't care and wait for it to let go, blow up and then let it sit for a few months to a year just to build it all over again. Been there, done that....got old quick LOL

 

i changed my oil every 10k at least. but it bit me in the ass and the last time i was at 13k and knew i needed oil but was running late so i was running 95mph with no oil and a rocker ate it so thats how i know at 207k i had no wear.

 

Remember changing the oil too often is not a good thing either.

Especially for synthetic oils. They are designed to last over 5k easily.

Too often I see people mentioning in for sale threads "oil changed every 2k or 3k" in cars running synthetic. When will they learn,

 

Rudy, what's your take on the lsj side of this?

 

My brain hurts. Raver you have chewed up
Too many chains. Tip

It's not the chain

 

Rudy, with respect, you dont know anything about Raver's engine or his problems. And in fact, smarter people than me know a whole lot more than me about timing chains and stuff like that particularly ecotecs.

Raver's deal is not related to the chain in my opinion, based on the work I understand was done on his engine. I dont beleive it is related to the valve springs, even though I prefer a softer spring seat pressure than most, but the spring rate is key and no one on this forum has talked at all about valve spring rate.

But for the record, what happens with a timing chain and sprockets, (when looked at with high speed cameras in a lab with engineers and techs supervising testing) is some pretty wild accelleration and decelleration over the rollers, due to issues with the sprocket tooth curvature and alignment and stuff like that. Tears the crap out of everything. Plastic chain guides are just pimples on the a****e of progress in this event. About the only thing they can do is just give up and break and spread pieces of plastic everywhere and jam up the oil pump pickup screen. And dont even start to talk about MRZ lightweight crank dampers, or folks NOT using ATI Crank dampers at 500 +whp.

Folks on here, IF they service the timing chain, generally DO NOT buy the deluxe kit with new sprockets they just do the guides and the tensioner, and the chain. And who on here buys Mr. B's trick ARP chain guide bolt assemblies?

The key in my opinion is sprocket teeth, their machining, curvature and their alignment. My guess is, probably few if any of the folks on here check sprocket alignment. No one looks at the sprocket curvature ( why would they think to do so, and if they did what would they look for or measure?) The LSJ full deluxe kit is a modest $300 shipped, but if its an LNF you are looking at $500 shipper for the deluxe kit with new VVT sprockets etc, and BTW who has the LNF VVT holding tool so they can install the chain properly? This asked of the forum members on a DIY basis as they dont have the dollars to spend at the stealership for the job, and dont have the money to buy a service tool , let alone a workshop manual to guide them in their rebuilds.


SO.
Its not the chain. My .02c.

 

ive always wondered about the sprockets

 

interesting and some perhaps relevant reading material:
Twin Cam Engine - Hot Bike Baggers Magazine

I am fond of harleys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_(physics)

jerks. yup fascinating.

CBC

well okay if its an industrial chain driving a feed hopper at 25 rpm

http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/156...189%20core.pdf

well isnt this interesting?

and this?

http://www.recurdyn.cn/home/wp-conte...C_20097089.pdf

 

one thing they are not mentioning is chain oiling

good reads above

and there is one thing I thing they are missing about running a double roller

 

double roller ecotec upgrade wont be happening in my lifetime.... and you are right, the oilers were upgraded and the new kits have those upgrades.

 

I know how to make it work but its not going to be a plug and play deal

but if I was going to do a custom chain system you need a gear set to match and I would go to these guys http://tsubakimoto.com/product/auto/
I have run their chains and gears in mopars not to mention you can get custom length chains for head and deck machining

 

[QUOTE=OttawaMark;7158431]Price?

And how about an upgraded tensioner, some other company charges $150 for what is likely a stiffer internal spring and probably a drilled out oil port hole.

Also, a timing guide that isn't plastic. duh.[/QUOTE
Thats P werkes and its primarily to maintain good tension at low engine speeds and relatively low oil pressure

 

Lol. We are gonna have to figure out how to fix it. I know high HP cars cost money and maintenance and I can live with changing the chain and timing components once a season. Going through a set in a month ... Aggregating. Especially since my tuner wants to keep going faster in my car....and I have a hard time saying no Lol.

 

50k on the timing chain? Damn .. I'm at 108k miles with 3 track days (80+ miles of WOT, each) and probably 200 1/4 mile passes, not including all the other stupid stuff I've done in daily driving mode. Never done a full on burn out though ... 102k miles on the clutch too

 

Hmm. Makes you wonder, huh? Pick your teachers wisely.

 

well this thread and ottawa's make me think I should change my timing components

 

 

^^^^^^^ haha i know that feeling. Mine is totally fucked right now and clinging around in there. Getting towed on Monday for repairs. Again. But I get a new, bigger turbo put on....sweet! And then it's winter

 

Raver unless you remove the engine and do a comprehensive review of the entire front of that engine, there is faint hope that you are out of the woods. Losing chains very 3000 km is retarded, and indicates that there is something else more seriously wrong.