I've broken both guides. Black one twice. Chewed off an oiler. Snapped 3 bolts, re tapped the block in the car. Still works great.
Once again, the chain isn't the issue.

 

I agree with Mr. Powell that i dont think the chain is the issue for Raven. I will also say that if you change just the chain and not the sprokets, you are not helping anything, I think this is what was said in the articels John posted, i dint ead them. its just common knowledge for the line of work i do.

the chain and sprokets wear together, if you change one or the other, you will have premature failure of the other componet.

I have 191K on my LE5 , i drive the car fairly hard so im not sure the 50k recomendation is really accurate.

Finally, would a hardened chain really be a good idea? it will be harder, but will also be more fragile. im sure the chain see's a bit of stress under high rpms and gear changes if not done smoothly.

 

As soon as that block you delivered to me gets fully assembled John, my stock one is coming out.

Coppertop and SSKev said they would pull it and swap it for me. SSKev has already bailed. He only likes IT work not manual labour lol.

But once it is out, I'll put it in the truck and bring it over and we can investigate fully. I have faith we will figure it out. I have a few ideas as to why.

 

Seems like it doesn't matter whether it is turbo or SC, that being said does a SC add more stress to these components compared to a turbo? The rotors are a big chuck of mass that I imagine add 'noise' on both accel and decel to the rotation of the engine, or does the belt absorb the latency?

 

Free rev and aggressive downshifting wreck havoc on timing components. I'm rure the added mass does t help anything but it seems the blower would be more of a damper strain than a chain strain.

 

that's not much of a stretch the tensioner should handle it

 

I would look at the tensioner not being able to keep enough tension on the chain allowing it to whip and that will force the chain to do some wild stuff and a shorter chain should also be looked into for decked blocks and heads you deck them you make the chain longer and cause the tensioner to have to work harder

 

mechanical tensioner

 

Did you replace the Sprockets when you changed your customers chain?

 

I always replace as a set

 

use a mechanical tensioner

 

Cloyes - Timing Chain Kit
Part Number: 9-4201SX

 

All I can say is that I had all those same issues way before anyone else on here made it public(LNF that is). Search my posts...you will see. I can trace all my failures back to the supertech 78lb spring kit(before revision). The minute I put those things on I had all kinds of issues related to the timing components.

I spent the end of 2011 and half of 2012 troubleshooting issues before I decided to just go ahead and replace the head altogether with a brand new one with stock valve-train. Just so we're clear, I replaced all my timing components with brand new ones(VVT sprockets, chain, oiler(newer revised with the cloytes kit), both tensioners, guides and the solenoids on the head and even the CAMs). Everything, except for the springs. That was the last thing I did. About a month in with all the new parts....same failure: chain guide broke(again for the third time, and it was NEW) causing a cascading failure right down to timing skip.

That was it for me. I bought new EVERYTHING with the new head, even bought a new oil pan cause I was tired of digging pieces of chain guide out of the pickup tube. Before I took all the components off, I fixed it to where I could turn the car over and ran like four oil changes back to back, each with a new filter to clean out any remaining debris(the guide turns into a tiny sand material once it was ground up). Then replaced everything. Even sent the turbo back to BNR to be serviced and rebuilt.

Haven't had any issues since. That was back in August of last year. Not one problem since then. The only internal component that continues to be aftermarket is my WISECO's and they have been in there since April of 2010. BTW, best decision ever, to install those pistons. I still drive her hard like I always have. I still rev to about 6800. 25psi on an E-47 mix. Purrs like a kitten still.

I curse the day I installed those valve springs. I know a few others that have had the EXACT same type of failures after installing heavier valve springs. Just my experience so far....

 

Glad I went with 75's. sorry for your luck bud.

 

I agree that Cubanich has correctly identified one possible failure mode. I have run 78 lb supertechs in an LSJ always have, but with LNF rockers you have to machine the rockers to clear the retainers, and I did run into that issue at one point when I upgraded to the better LNF rockers in my LSJ. With 75 lb supertechs that problem is now handled.

 

As we have found out the super techs actually hit the lnf head. And the rockers hit the retainers, and most likely causing stress on the timing components.

 

thats true you found that; I checked very carefully after reading your posts about that and have not found an issue but its sure something to check in the pocket, along with spring seat height, and spring diameter under full lift, each and every time, as there can be drift in head castings i believe.

I am not sure where the heads are cast, but other components like oil pans come from china most recently, israel and iirc europe...anything can happen. I think its possible to become parts replacers not engine rebuilders...sort of a lost art I think...and even then good engine builder grow to accept certain things and dont check. Pushrod length on LS engines is something we see often up here- wrong. and not on every cylinder, which comes to camshaft checks. My experience with ZZP is they check every camshaft carefully after receipt, before they are shipped.

 

Not the treadjack, But yall HAVE used the Cloyes kit??? I seen that set a few days ago on rockauto, But iam alway alittle concerend with Non OEM parts like that

 

You and me both.

 

I have used both. My engine builder uses Cloyes they are OEM suppliers also. I prefer to buy OEM from CED however. Makes me feel better.

 

John, you and the guys on GMSC were very helpful in discovering the fact that the 78lb kit had issues with the LNF. I think I found out about the revised 75lb kit in one of those threads as well so thanks.

LOL I had no qualms about posting my issues. Sorry you had to read through so much
I know others may have had the same problems but either just didn't post here or wanted to keep up a front that everything was A-OK. Members like cmiller post a lot about their issues and how they got passed them so that's much appreciated. I only tried to do the same.

Yeah I remember you stating you had the head properly machined for them and all the discoveries you made about the kit on an LNF...definitely not a drop in as it was advertised at the time. Good luck on your new build BTW...looks badass man!

Yeah, thanks man...but those weren't available at the time. ZZP didn't have theirs out yet and even after they did release their spring kit, there was a revision shortly after. Spring kits for the LNF have matured since then.

 

I wonder where the Opel/ Buick 2.0 engines are built

 

So while we wait for the response, I have a quick question for u guys. I need to replace my valves and springs. Should I use OEM or go with the supertechs, or ZZP 82#? Is there a thread showing how good one is over the other? What problems will I run into with the aftermarket options?

 

Why do you need to replace valves and springs?

Replacing springs for higher rev limit or higher lift cams is a good idea, but if you're keeping stock rev limiter and cams then no need. I have the ZZP 82# springs in mine. They seem to be holding up just fine. I have heard that the revised SuperTechs are better than before. Either option will probably be just fine.

 

So, It looks like everything went well!!!