trifect air fuel ratio
Reading the HPT thread seems people don't understand that "big time tuners" will not share complete knowledge with you. That is part of their lively hood and anyone who runs a business will tell you , you do NOT cut your own throat plain and simple.
Go check other platforms you say all this about free information on them but every platform I have seen that has gone this way lasts about 6 months then buttons back up. Why because when person X can just steal what person Y is doing and apply to Option A then product Z is now zero.
Also you then start to get people who rush into the tuning and read what someone who is a "reputable money maker" posts and tries to copy and tweak that which ends in engine failure and where do you think the blame is going to go. If you think someone will not point a finger and try to push of the blame on someone else even if they indirectly had no part then your just senile it is how the world works now.
I am all for cross sharing information I believe it is how a platform needs to evolve, but as someone who also runs a business I do understand that somethings are not public knowledge and have to be held back. I hope the mass does share more information you don't have to have big time tuners to do that the general public when knowledge is combine is actually in a far greater category than a single mind.
Go check other platforms you say all this about free information on them but every platform I have seen that has gone this way lasts about 6 months then buttons back up. Why because when person X can just steal what person Y is doing and apply to Option A then product Z is now zero.
Also you then start to get people who rush into the tuning and read what someone who is a "reputable money maker" posts and tries to copy and tweak that which ends in engine failure and where do you think the blame is going to go. If you think someone will not point a finger and try to push of the blame on someone else even if they indirectly had no part then your just senile it is how the world works now.
I am all for cross sharing information I believe it is how a platform needs to evolve, but as someone who also runs a business I do understand that somethings are not public knowledge and have to be held back. I hope the mass does share more information you don't have to have big time tuners to do that the general public when knowledge is combine is actually in a far greater category than a single mind.
End of Thread!!!
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Joined: 07-12-08
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From: Houston, TX
Well the discussion could have only gone on for three years at most for these motors.. I have no proof as far as dyno graphs to show what AFR makes the most HP. I dont tune on the dyno, I prefer the street. Everyone can argue which is better, but i have my reasons for what i do. I see and feel a difference in the way the car runs comparing rich to a leaner PE. My data logger always times out better runs when i run it leaner and shows less misfires. I dont think that running the car at a .80 lambda will hurt things, but it cant be good for it. Think about it.. Its almost 10% richer than stock. And some of these cars are running more rich.
Well the discussion could have only gone on for three years at most for these motors.. I have no proof as far as dyno graphs to show what AFR makes the most HP. I dont tune on the dyno, I prefer the street. Everyone can argue which is better, but i have my reasons for what i do. I see and feel a difference in the way the car runs comparing rich to a leaner PE. My data logger always times out better runs when i run it leaner and shows less misfires. I dont think that running the car at a .80 lambda will hurt things, but it cant be good for it. Think about it.. Its almost 10% richer than stock. And some of these cars are running more rich.
that makes it about 5 and1/2 years
LOL
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Hard data only works if the person looking at it knows what it means. Let's say I post a couple logs and you tell me, in private if you want, what's wrong in them? I'm betting I could post a few that you wouldn't be able to see the problem or know how to fix it.
You're running LNF's too rich. That's fact, not opinion. If you don't want to listen and learn from a guy like me, that tells me you think you already know everything. That's a true sign of an ignorant person. I don't know everything, and I learn from EVERBODY AND EVERYONE, no matter who they are or what they might know. That's the sign of an intelligent person, one who gleans knowledge from ANY source, and constantly keeps learning.
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It's not about (at least for me) who knows better or is smarter or taller or stronger, I couldn't give a crap about that. There's LOTS of guys smarter than me, and always will be. The whole reason I'm making a point of this mixture thing it that people keep saying it's "safe" to run these motors hella rich. It's not. It dilutes the oil, washes down the cylinders, causes false knock, overtaxes the fuel system so it ends up actually running OUT of fuel at times, carbons up the engine, causes misfires and fouled plugs, wastes gas, pollutes WAY more, etc. Running an LNF as rich as some of these tuners do is NOT safe. Period The End.
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Not trying to pick on anyone here but this is another one I hear all the time that for the most part is just not true. Can someone, ANYONE show me an LNF that has "blown up" due to a lean fuel mixture? And I don't mean "I heard about somebodies brother that had an aunt that worked with a guy that ran out of gas in an LNF once". I mean pictures of a BURNT piston (not broken), burnt valves, white exhaust ports, etc. Not saying it has never happened, I'm saying I've NEVER seen or heard of one. If someone has pics post them up. If not, don't assume if your DI motor is 14.7 at wot it's gonna blow. It won't. Again, fact, not opinion. So why do we keep saying pig rich is "safer"? I HAVE seen LNF's "blown up" from being too rich.
Oh, sorry, I forgot I said "Period The End" in that last post. Never said I was perfect.
Oh, sorry, I forgot I said "Period The End" in that last post. Never said I was perfect.
Not trying to pick on anyone here but this is another one I hear all the time that for the most part is just not true. Can someone, ANYONE show me an LNF that has "blown up" due to a lean fuel mixture? And I don't mean "I heard about somebodies brother that had an aunt that worked with a guy that ran out of gas in an LNF once". I mean pictures of a BURNT piston (not broken), burnt valves, white exhaust ports, etc. Not saying it has never happened, I'm saying I've NEVER seen or heard of one. If someone has pics post them up. If not, don't assume if your DI motor is 14.7 at wot it's gonna blow. It won't. Again, fact, not opinion. So why do we keep saying pig rich is "safer"? I HAVE seen LNF's "blown up" from being too rich.
Oh, sorry, I forgot I said "Period The End" in that last post. Never said I was perfect.
Oh, sorry, I forgot I said "Period The End" in that last post. Never said I was perfect.
Ive never seen one blown up from being rich or lean. But I probably rebuilt 2000 V8s over the years with burnt pistons from being too lean so I know what they look like. Ha Ha
Poll Everyone that blew an engine chime in. Im talking engines 400 HP or less LNF. I want to see how many had burned pistons and how many had broken cracked pistons. The causes are different. Thanks
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Can't wait to see the results of your poll, I really don't think there's many "burnt" from being lean LNF's out there, if any.
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Joined: 09-04-09
Posts: 2,218
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From: Alabama
gmtech16450yz,
You are wrong on so many levels its not even funny.
I ran 26 psi on my stock K04 Trifecta tuned car (2 years)
I ran 27 psi on my BNR 2871GT (6 months) traded car in on a 2011 Regal CXL Turbo
I never took the HHR SS to GM for anything other then CAM end plate TSB.
My car was left at the dealership before I traded it in, they wanted there GM tech to look it over because they were afraid it was modded. (My fault for driving it in initially with the aftermarket wheels) I de-modded it (left the Trifecta 22 psi tune on) and left it with the dealership.
I got a excellent trade in value on the car of $18,630, max was $18,900, The only reason I didn't get the max was the rear bumper had a gouge scrath in.
Pretty damn impresive for a car that was tuned by Trifecta at 1.5k miles on the OD, and had one the entire ownership of the car, even when I traded it in.
My new $33k dollar 2011 Regal CXL turbo has been Trifecta tuned with 50 miles on the OD. That is how much faith I have in Vince's tune from owning my HHR SS with the tune.
So excuse me if I think your full of ****. I don't care if your a tech/eng or what.
Real life experience of owning and running a Trifecta tune on multiple modifications over an extended period of time > gmtech16450yz heresay
You are wrong on so many levels its not even funny.
I ran 26 psi on my stock K04 Trifecta tuned car (2 years)
I ran 27 psi on my BNR 2871GT (6 months) traded car in on a 2011 Regal CXL Turbo
I never took the HHR SS to GM for anything other then CAM end plate TSB.
My car was left at the dealership before I traded it in, they wanted there GM tech to look it over because they were afraid it was modded. (My fault for driving it in initially with the aftermarket wheels) I de-modded it (left the Trifecta 22 psi tune on) and left it with the dealership.
I got a excellent trade in value on the car of $18,630, max was $18,900, The only reason I didn't get the max was the rear bumper had a gouge scrath in.
Pretty damn impresive for a car that was tuned by Trifecta at 1.5k miles on the OD, and had one the entire ownership of the car, even when I traded it in.
My new $33k dollar 2011 Regal CXL turbo has been Trifecta tuned with 50 miles on the OD. That is how much faith I have in Vince's tune from owning my HHR SS with the tune.
So excuse me if I think your full of ****. I don't care if your a tech/eng or what.
Real life experience of owning and running a Trifecta tune on multiple modifications over an extended period of time > gmtech16450yz heresay
Last edited by HHRSSouth; Aug 15, 2011 at 07:18 PM.
Im a bit older than you and was a Millwright for 44 years so Im allowed to be a smartass Ha Ha Took my first engine apart around 1960 and never stopped. Took my first Mechanics course while in the Navy. Designed and installed many High Pressure Steam systems in the plant. Built a lot of race engines over the years many of which are still running. Got my first computer when I was in my early 50s and built my own a year later. I wish I was young again. Now I can kick back and enjoy myself. I dont mind stirring the Pot now and then
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gmtech16450yz,
You are wrong on so many levels its not even funny.
I ran 26 psi on my stock K04 Trifecta tuned car (2 years)
I ran 27 psi on my BNR 2871GT (6 months) traded car in on a 2011 Regal CXL Turbo
I never took the HHR SS to GM for anything other then CAM end plate TSB.
My car was left at the dealership before I traded it in, they wanted there GM tech to look it over because they were afraid it was modded. (My fault for driving it in initially with the aftermarket wheels) I de-modded it (left the Trifecta 22 psi tune on) and left it with the dealership.
I got a excellent trade in value on the car of $18,630, max was $18,900, The only reason I didn't get the max was the rear bumper had a gouge scrath in.
Pretty damn impresive for a car that was tuned by Trifecta at 1.5k miles on the OD, and had one the entire ownership of the car, even when I traded it in.
My new $33k dollar 2011 Regal CXL turbo has been Trifecta tuned with 50 miles on the OD. That is how much faith I have in Vince's tune from owning my HHR SS with the tune.
So excuse me if I think your full of ****. I don't care if your a tech/eng or what.
Real life experience of owning and running a Trifecta tune on multiple modifications over an extended period of time > gmtech16450yz heresay
You are wrong on so many levels its not even funny.
I ran 26 psi on my stock K04 Trifecta tuned car (2 years)
I ran 27 psi on my BNR 2871GT (6 months) traded car in on a 2011 Regal CXL Turbo
I never took the HHR SS to GM for anything other then CAM end plate TSB.
My car was left at the dealership before I traded it in, they wanted there GM tech to look it over because they were afraid it was modded. (My fault for driving it in initially with the aftermarket wheels) I de-modded it (left the Trifecta 22 psi tune on) and left it with the dealership.
I got a excellent trade in value on the car of $18,630, max was $18,900, The only reason I didn't get the max was the rear bumper had a gouge scrath in.
Pretty damn impresive for a car that was tuned by Trifecta at 1.5k miles on the OD, and had one the entire ownership of the car, even when I traded it in.
My new $33k dollar 2011 Regal CXL turbo has been Trifecta tuned with 50 miles on the OD. That is how much faith I have in Vince's tune from owning my HHR SS with the tune.
So excuse me if I think your full of ****. I don't care if your a tech/eng or what.
Real life experience of owning and running a Trifecta tune on multiple modifications over an extended period of time > gmtech16450yz heresay