Advantages/Disadvantages over 2.6???
The last time I was at my local performance shop I was discussing Water/methanol injection with their tuner. At the time I was tuning for -20 degree washer fluid which is approx 33% methanol.
He said that he did not see any substantial hp gains from water/methanol injection kits on the dyno until they ran at least 75% methanol to water. And his recommendation for water/methanol kits was to run straight 100% methanol or spend your money elsewhere.
I ignored him at the time because I had several forums full of people telling me that water/methanol kits where the way to go...
He said that he did not see any substantial hp gains from water/methanol injection kits on the dyno until they ran at least 75% methanol to water. And his recommendation for water/methanol kits was to run straight 100% methanol or spend your money elsewhere.
I ignored him at the time because I had several forums full of people telling me that water/methanol kits where the way to go...
In the same fashion, you could take a stock Cobalt and install nothing but a 2.8" pulley. Then dyno the car and get maybe 190WHP. Adding washer fluid to the car would produce large gains. Maybe even get you to 220WHP. At that point it would be factually correct to say that your meth kit gained you 30WHP. The problem with this is ignoring the fact that you could remove the meth kit and the 2.8" pulley and install a 3.1" pulley and dyno 230WHP. This is why people believe washer fluid works. It does, but only if the car is wrong to begin with. I've posted this before. $1000 challenge.
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
okay.. realistically.. if one were to put a 2.8 on, they would have the supporting mods (60s and a TUNE).
i can promise you, someone with a 2.8, 60s, and a TUNE is not dynoing at 180.
If someone, using just a 2.8, 60s... then added water/meth injection, and didnt get a tune, they would dyno less than without it.
if they got a TUNE... they would dyno MORE than without it.
i can promise you, someone with a 2.8, 60s, and a TUNE is not dynoing at 180.
If someone, using just a 2.8, 60s... then added water/meth injection, and didnt get a tune, they would dyno less than without it.
if they got a TUNE... they would dyno MORE than without it.
I honestly don't know if I ever seen a dyno comparison of a vehicle running water/meth injection and one not where the only variable is the water/meth injection. Any thing that I have seen is just baseline stage 2 vs 60s 2.8" pulley and meth. That is not a fair side by side comparison.
Another question I have for you is that you are a huge promoter of timing over boost. According to you, lower boost = less heat = more timing = more hp. Correct?
Do you agree that water/meth injection increase the octane level of the fuel solution?
Increasing octane allows you to run more timing right?
So do you think that the power loss due to the water is more then the possible power gain from the increase in timing?
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
But that is not a general example... and thats not nit picking.. he tried to make a point that wasnt even valid
I honestly don't know if I ever seen a dyno comparison of a vehicle running water/meth injection and one not where the only variable is the water/meth injection. Any thing that I have seen is just baseline stage 2 vs 60s 2.8" pulley and meth. That is not a fair side by side comparison.
Zoomer is right in the point that it will bring up the HP due to the fact of something restricting it prior... although he says its a "bad tuneup" of the sort...
well take into consideration heat this time.. If heat is lets say taking away 5hp.. the wi will cool the charge, thus brining back that 5hp, and the tune, which will allow you to advance the spark a little (and lean you out a little more) will add additional power...
Its in theory, just like everything ZZP is trying to explain..
they have their theory, i have mine.
I honestly don't know if I ever seen a dyno comparison of a vehicle running water/meth injection and one not where the only variable is the water/meth injection. Any thing that I have seen is just baseline stage 2 vs 60s 2.8" pulley and meth. That is not a fair side by side comparison.
well take into consideration heat this time.. If heat is lets say taking away 5hp.. the wi will cool the charge, thus brining back that 5hp, and the tune, which will allow you to advance the spark a little (and lean you out a little more) will add additional power...
Its in theory, just like everything ZZP is trying to explain..
they have their theory, i have mine.
Last edited by ShortStack; Jan 21, 2009 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
My point was exaggerated for clarity but appears to have had the opposite affect. Same goes for drinking acid. I sincerely hope that no one takes that seriously or believes I am trying to make a point about drinking acid. I guess "do not try this at home" is in order? I can change the numbers if it helps but I am only making these up to say that if you ever have a Cobalt that makes power with washer fluid, then it was wrong to begin with.
Better example would be the title of this thread. 2.6" pulley, if you run a 2.6" pulley and make 260HP with WI, then you could make more with a larger pulley and no WI. Change the #'s to whatever is realistic to you, the point remains the same.
I'm not an advocate of timing over boost. It depends on the situation. I'm an advocate of running lean with a larger pulley if you have to run a 10:1 AF ratio to get rid of KR.
I'm an advocate of timing if you're running too much boost and the timing is only able to be set to 15 deg.
I'm an advocate of a smaller pulley if your boost is low or timing is already high.
Octane also plays a factor. You can't really say XXX is the best or timing is better than boost or lean is better than timing. Everything can be better than everything is one is far out of optimum.
-Yes, water decreases the ability of fuel to ignite. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
This is not a good thing because water is not a fuel.
-More timing will increase power to a point and WI will allow more timing given the same parameters as a setup w/o it. The trick here though is that we can adjust pulley size and if you cannot run optimal timing, you will make more power by lowering boost to allow the additional timing than you will by adding water to allow it.
So for example if you have a 2.8" pulley and max timing you can run is 17 deg...
WI will allow more timing. Tiny bit of water, tiny bit more timing. More water, more timing.
BUT less boost will also allow more timing. Little less boost, little more timing. The lowering of boost and addition of timing will always net better gain on the M62 powered LSJ than using water to add timing.
This happens for 2 reasons.
1. Adding water to your car reduces power. (See examples of pouring water in the gas tank, driving on a humid day, dyno correction factor, etc)
2. Reducing boost comes with the benefit of less parasitic loss. (Example: drop boost slightly and lose 3 HP but gain 1HP back from less power to spin blower. Net loss = 2HP)
Better example would be the title of this thread. 2.6" pulley, if you run a 2.6" pulley and make 260HP with WI, then you could make more with a larger pulley and no WI. Change the #'s to whatever is realistic to you, the point remains the same.
I'm not an advocate of timing over boost. It depends on the situation. I'm an advocate of running lean with a larger pulley if you have to run a 10:1 AF ratio to get rid of KR.
I'm an advocate of timing if you're running too much boost and the timing is only able to be set to 15 deg.
I'm an advocate of a smaller pulley if your boost is low or timing is already high.
Octane also plays a factor. You can't really say XXX is the best or timing is better than boost or lean is better than timing. Everything can be better than everything is one is far out of optimum.
This is not a good thing because water is not a fuel.
-More timing will increase power to a point and WI will allow more timing given the same parameters as a setup w/o it. The trick here though is that we can adjust pulley size and if you cannot run optimal timing, you will make more power by lowering boost to allow the additional timing than you will by adding water to allow it.
So for example if you have a 2.8" pulley and max timing you can run is 17 deg...
WI will allow more timing. Tiny bit of water, tiny bit more timing. More water, more timing.
BUT less boost will also allow more timing. Little less boost, little more timing. The lowering of boost and addition of timing will always net better gain on the M62 powered LSJ than using water to add timing.
This happens for 2 reasons.
1. Adding water to your car reduces power. (See examples of pouring water in the gas tank, driving on a humid day, dyno correction factor, etc)
2. Reducing boost comes with the benefit of less parasitic loss. (Example: drop boost slightly and lose 3 HP but gain 1HP back from less power to spin blower. Net loss = 2HP)
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
zoomer, my apologies for taking what you said as exaggerated. I was trying to exaggerate the point that the only thing that was not mentioned by you during that statement was a tune.. which makes or breaks everything.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
I think most of us would agree that straight water does not work. I think we would all agree that 100% methanol can be quite effective. At this point, the question becomes at what percentage of methanol does it become worth-while. Personally, if I were to decide to run methanol, it would be 100%. I don't see why anyone would go through the hassle of installing a methanol kit only to sabotage it by mixing it with water.
Things I don't like about typical meth kits is that they are poorly built, inconsistent, and unsafe. I'm not saying that there aren't any good kits. What I am saying is that most cars that come through our shop with kits on them have failed to impress me.
This also holds true with our larger pulley argument. We are not trying to tell people that smaller pulleys should never be run. They do have their place. However, most of the cars that we come across running 2.8 or smaller pulleys are not properly set up for them.
Things I don't like about typical meth kits is that they are poorly built, inconsistent, and unsafe. I'm not saying that there aren't any good kits. What I am saying is that most cars that come through our shop with kits on them have failed to impress me.
This also holds true with our larger pulley argument. We are not trying to tell people that smaller pulleys should never be run. They do have their place. However, most of the cars that we come across running 2.8 or smaller pulleys are not properly set up for them.
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From: Horseheads, NY
While true, your statements do not appear to me to apply to what we're talking about.
-What does water being a polar molecule have anything to do with combustion in an engine?
-Yes, the properties are different. Bromotrifluoromethane, or halon, is also different. That's why one is called water, one is called carbon dioxide and one is called Bromotrifluoromethane. There are lots of things we could be putting in the engine and they are all different. My point is that nearly anything which reduces combustion will allow increased boost and timing while at the same time lower horsepower.
-What does water being soluable in alchohol have to do with it being beneficial?
-A question I always get laughed at for asking but I'll ask again. Why not pour windshield washer fluid in your gas tank? Or just pour some water in there with a little methanol so it mixes together. According to the theory, the car should be able to run a lot of boost and timing all the time then right?
-What does water being a polar molecule have anything to do with combustion in an engine?
-Yes, the properties are different. Bromotrifluoromethane, or halon, is also different. That's why one is called water, one is called carbon dioxide and one is called Bromotrifluoromethane. There are lots of things we could be putting in the engine and they are all different. My point is that nearly anything which reduces combustion will allow increased boost and timing while at the same time lower horsepower.
-What does water being soluable in alchohol have to do with it being beneficial?
-A question I always get laughed at for asking but I'll ask again. Why not pour windshield washer fluid in your gas tank? Or just pour some water in there with a little methanol so it mixes together. According to the theory, the car should be able to run a lot of boost and timing all the time then right?
OK, I can see your pretty close to you understanding why WI doesn't work. You just have one small step left to take.
Continuing on examples, why is it that humid air reduces HP? Why not just turn up the boost since the water in the air should 'cool' the charge? Why is it that dyno's have humidity calculated in the correction factor? Answer: Because water reduces HP.
Fuel injection works well because the fuel is turned to vapor before entering the combustion chamber. This is also the purpose of a carborator. This is why fuel isn't just poured into the motor. The engine is exploding a vapor, not burning a liquid. In the same way, water introduced into the engine is turned to a vapor before the combustion cycle begins. Thus the water and the fuel are 'vapor' in the air before the spark plug ignites. The 'mixing' you believe is happening when you pour water in the gas tank ocurrs regardless of whether you inject it at the TB, the valve or pour it in the tank.
Mixing water in the gas tank would acomplish the same thing. There is no 'new' substance that a mixture of water and gas become which is less flamable than gas. The solution is simply less flamable because there is water in it. If you google 'gas dry' you'll learn that any alcohol (ethanol, isopropyl, methanol) will allow the water to mix with the gas. However, you'll also learn that it is not creating a new chemical compound as you stated above. That assertion is incorrect. You still have water, alcohol and gas in a solution. If you look up the chemical definition of solution, you'll read this "5. Chemistry. a. the process by which a gas, liquid, or solid is dispersed homogeneously in a gas, liquid, or solid without chemical change." So actually pouring the water in your gas tank would be the 'perfect' WI system, yet it doesn't work.
Continuing on examples, why is it that humid air reduces HP? Why not just turn up the boost since the water in the air should 'cool' the charge? Why is it that dyno's have humidity calculated in the correction factor? Answer: Because water reduces HP.
Fuel injection works well because the fuel is turned to vapor before entering the combustion chamber. This is also the purpose of a carborator. This is why fuel isn't just poured into the motor. The engine is exploding a vapor, not burning a liquid. In the same way, water introduced into the engine is turned to a vapor before the combustion cycle begins. Thus the water and the fuel are 'vapor' in the air before the spark plug ignites. The 'mixing' you believe is happening when you pour water in the gas tank ocurrs regardless of whether you inject it at the TB, the valve or pour it in the tank.
Mixing water in the gas tank would acomplish the same thing. There is no 'new' substance that a mixture of water and gas become which is less flamable than gas. The solution is simply less flamable because there is water in it. If you google 'gas dry' you'll learn that any alcohol (ethanol, isopropyl, methanol) will allow the water to mix with the gas. However, you'll also learn that it is not creating a new chemical compound as you stated above. That assertion is incorrect. You still have water, alcohol and gas in a solution. If you look up the chemical definition of solution, you'll read this "5. Chemistry. a. the process by which a gas, liquid, or solid is dispersed homogeneously in a gas, liquid, or solid without chemical change." So actually pouring the water in your gas tank would be the 'perfect' WI system, yet it doesn't work.
Also snow and other companies do run straight water...at times. and humid ait is also normally a less dense air mass then intercooled and water/meth injected air.
The idea of gas in the tank is from an over abundance of water to the level that it makes the gas so resistant to destination the the energy added to the system from the spark plug is insufficient to start the reaction. That is what you are getting at in this post and the next iirc. Meth/water injection does not saturate the mixture to or beyond this point.
What I am saying is that there is no difference between spraying water in the motor with a separate jet than pouring it in the gas tank. You understand that putting water in the gas tank makes the gas less flamable. This is due to the fact that water isn't flamable. I just need to get you to understand that injecting water at the TB, the blower or the valve is the same thing as pouring it in the tank.
Water gas and alcohol form a solution when mixed together. By definition it is evenly distributed. That's the definition of a solution. I'm not sure where you got the infor to type in caps that it is not distributed this way but your source is incorrect. Nearly all fuels today have some ethanol in them. This protects cars from the problems of the past when moisture got in the tanks at the stations or your car. You actually can pour some water in the tank and it won't do anything but reduce engine power slightly and eventually cause the need for tuning.
Furthermore, if you did put enough water and some alcohol (to allow a solution instead of a mixture) in your gas tank, you could add boost and timing. You could never add enough to compensate for the loss of power the water created though. And this is the point of my entire dissertation.
Point 1 - I understand people are tuning for it. All my points still hold true.
Point 2 - Yes, this is true but the amount of methanol compared to water is not achieved in windshield washer fluid. If you ran pure methanol, you'd have the potential to gain quite a bit of power. Unfortunately I don't know anyone doing this and if you had access to alcohol (such as E85) you could just pour it in the gas tank and retune. The results would be much better.
Methanol boils at 147 deg F but I'm not sure why that matters. Why would you want to lower the flashpoint in this application?
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...ter-d_987.html
If it's an issue, switch to ethanol. Adding water to your car isn't a good idea for trying to go fast.
Water gas and alcohol form a solution when mixed together. By definition it is evenly distributed. That's the definition of a solution. I'm not sure where you got the infor to type in caps that it is not distributed this way but your source is incorrect. Nearly all fuels today have some ethanol in them. This protects cars from the problems of the past when moisture got in the tanks at the stations or your car. You actually can pour some water in the tank and it won't do anything but reduce engine power slightly and eventually cause the need for tuning.
Furthermore, if you did put enough water and some alcohol (to allow a solution instead of a mixture) in your gas tank, you could add boost and timing. You could never add enough to compensate for the loss of power the water created though. And this is the point of my entire dissertation.
Point 1 - I understand people are tuning for it. All my points still hold true.
Point 2 - Yes, this is true but the amount of methanol compared to water is not achieved in windshield washer fluid. If you ran pure methanol, you'd have the potential to gain quite a bit of power. Unfortunately I don't know anyone doing this and if you had access to alcohol (such as E85) you could just pour it in the gas tank and retune. The results would be much better.
Methanol boils at 147 deg F but I'm not sure why that matters. Why would you want to lower the flashpoint in this application?
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...ter-d_987.html
If it's an issue, switch to ethanol. Adding water to your car isn't a good idea for trying to go fast.
He sounds like he knew what he was talking about. The info on the -20 sounds pretty close as well.
Water and gas do not mix until you add alcohol, then a solution is formed and they do in fact mix homogeneously. Google please so we aren't just typing back and forth. You are a milimeter away from grasping this entire thing.
If someone were to drink lye they would die. The only cure would be to pour acid in their mouth along with the sodium hydroxide. Does this mean that acid is good for you? Well, no not really. Could you argue and say "my aunt poured acid in her mouth and it helped her" well, yes you could if she had ingested lye but the argument would still be silly.
In the same fashion, you could take a stock Cobalt and install nothing but a 2.8" pulley. Then dyno the car and get maybe 190WHP. Adding washer fluid to the car would produce large gains. Maybe even get you to 220WHP. At that point it would be factually correct to say that your meth kit gained you 30WHP. The problem with this is ignoring the fact that you could remove the meth kit and the 2.8" pulley and install a 3.1" pulley and dyno 230WHP. This is why people believe washer fluid works. It does, but only if the car is wrong to begin with. I've posted this before. $1000 challenge.
Water and gas do not mix until you add alcohol, then a solution is formed and they do in fact mix homogeneously. Google please so we aren't just typing back and forth. You are a milimeter away from grasping this entire thing.
If someone were to drink lye they would die. The only cure would be to pour acid in their mouth along with the sodium hydroxide. Does this mean that acid is good for you? Well, no not really. Could you argue and say "my aunt poured acid in her mouth and it helped her" well, yes you could if she had ingested lye but the argument would still be silly.
In the same fashion, you could take a stock Cobalt and install nothing but a 2.8" pulley. Then dyno the car and get maybe 190WHP. Adding washer fluid to the car would produce large gains. Maybe even get you to 220WHP. At that point it would be factually correct to say that your meth kit gained you 30WHP. The problem with this is ignoring the fact that you could remove the meth kit and the 2.8" pulley and install a 3.1" pulley and dyno 230WHP. This is why people believe washer fluid works. It does, but only if the car is wrong to begin with. I've posted this before. $1000 challenge.
My point was exaggerated for clarity but appears to have had the opposite affect. Same goes for drinking acid. I sincerely hope that no one takes that seriously or believes I am trying to make a point about drinking acid. I guess "do not try this at home" is in order? I can change the numbers if it helps but I am only making these up to say that if you ever have a Cobalt that makes power with washer fluid, then it was wrong to begin with.
Better example would be the title of this thread. 2.6" pulley, if you run a 2.6" pulley and make 260HP with WI, then you could make more with a larger pulley and no WI. Change the #'s to whatever is realistic to you, the point remains the same.
I'm not an advocate of timing over boost. It depends on the situation. I'm an advocate of running lean with a larger pulley if you have to run a 10:1 AF ratio to get rid of KR.
I'm an advocate of timing if you're running too much boost and the timing is only able to be set to 15 deg.
I'm an advocate of a smaller pulley if your boost is low or timing is already high.
Octane also plays a factor. You can't really say XXX is the best or timing is better than boost or lean is better than timing. Everything can be better than everything is one is far out of optimum.
-Yes, water decreases the ability of fuel to ignite. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
This is not a good thing because water is not a fuel.
-More timing will increase power to a point and WI will allow more timing given the same parameters as a setup w/o it. The trick here though is that we can adjust pulley size and if you cannot run optimal timing, you will make more power by lowering boost to allow the additional timing than you will by adding water to allow it.
So for example if you have a 2.8" pulley and max timing you can run is 17 deg...
WI will allow more timing. Tiny bit of water, tiny bit more timing. More water, more timing.
BUT less boost will also allow more timing. Little less boost, little more timing. The lowering of boost and addition of timing will always net better gain on the M62 powered LSJ than using water to add timing.
This happens for 2 reasons.
1. Adding water to your car reduces power. (See examples of pouring water in the gas tank, driving on a humid day, dyno correction factor, etc)
2. Reducing boost comes with the benefit of less parasitic loss. (Example: drop boost slightly and lose 3 HP but gain 1HP back from less power to spin blower. Net loss = 2HP)
Better example would be the title of this thread. 2.6" pulley, if you run a 2.6" pulley and make 260HP with WI, then you could make more with a larger pulley and no WI. Change the #'s to whatever is realistic to you, the point remains the same.
I'm not an advocate of timing over boost. It depends on the situation. I'm an advocate of running lean with a larger pulley if you have to run a 10:1 AF ratio to get rid of KR.
I'm an advocate of timing if you're running too much boost and the timing is only able to be set to 15 deg.
I'm an advocate of a smaller pulley if your boost is low or timing is already high.
Octane also plays a factor. You can't really say XXX is the best or timing is better than boost or lean is better than timing. Everything can be better than everything is one is far out of optimum.
-Yes, water decreases the ability of fuel to ignite. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
This is not a good thing because water is not a fuel.
-More timing will increase power to a point and WI will allow more timing given the same parameters as a setup w/o it. The trick here though is that we can adjust pulley size and if you cannot run optimal timing, you will make more power by lowering boost to allow the additional timing than you will by adding water to allow it.
So for example if you have a 2.8" pulley and max timing you can run is 17 deg...
WI will allow more timing. Tiny bit of water, tiny bit more timing. More water, more timing.
BUT less boost will also allow more timing. Little less boost, little more timing. The lowering of boost and addition of timing will always net better gain on the M62 powered LSJ than using water to add timing.
This happens for 2 reasons.
1. Adding water to your car reduces power. (See examples of pouring water in the gas tank, driving on a humid day, dyno correction factor, etc)
2. Reducing boost comes with the benefit of less parasitic loss. (Example: drop boost slightly and lose 3 HP but gain 1HP back from less power to spin blower. Net loss = 2HP)
Also you dont have to run 10.0 afr to run a 2.5 you can run 11.8 on 93 pump on a 2.5 with 19 deg of timing with minimal mods no meth. Itll get you down the track without knocking but start pulling past the 1/4 and u have to back timing off a hair to keep KR down.
I'm really starting to believe you don't have as much experience with these cars as you claim.
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Joined: 07-16-08
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
He is going to use the point that if you put race gas in a stock cobalt, it wont do anything to performance...
if you tune that cobalt for race gas though (which is what i have been trying to argue)... you will have one bad ass cobalt.
This is going to be the the 4th thread that ZZP has decided to come in, argue with customers, and get locked.
if you tune that cobalt for race gas though (which is what i have been trying to argue)... you will have one bad ass cobalt.
This is going to be the the 4th thread that ZZP has decided to come in, argue with customers, and get locked.
Last edited by ShortStack; Jan 22, 2009 at 01:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
lolz, yup w/m injection doesn't work. Not like it was ever used by anyone beside car enthusiasts..... hmm WWII fighter planes come to mind.
I dunno from my own playing around with the cobalt, I made 14whp more on the meth setup on my 2.55 pullied car and was able to run it a bit leaner (12.2:1 vs 11.6:1) ended up netting 296whp 274wtq with that setup (and the meth line busted on the dyno lol).
I dunno from my own playing around with the cobalt, I made 14whp more on the meth setup on my 2.55 pullied car and was able to run it a bit leaner (12.2:1 vs 11.6:1) ended up netting 296whp 274wtq with that setup (and the meth line busted on the dyno lol).
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Matt honestly I've seen many dyno's of 3.0 and 3.1 pulleys completely maxed out making much less hp than others with the same mods. People on this forum feel that you do not know what your talking about when you say these things. Also if you truly feel that WMI doesn't create hp then why not post up some graphs of your own that will positively show no gain from a wmi... And also more graphs of your own that prove with the same car smaller pulleys do not make more power. Just a thought.
The thread is losing focus so I cannot address all the statements. I will say that the insinuation that race gas is similar to regular gas with water mixed in it is well...not very intelligent.
Let me just say that this arguing isn't needed. I know some of you guys aren't going to understand this. I've argued in threads claiming the idea of 1/2 water 1/2 gas is legit. People actually believe you can run your car on 1/2 water and make statement about the hydrogen and oxygen molecules and call me a retard, blah blah. Those debates don't go anywhere when people refuse to be logical or think they are logical when they understand 10% of the equation.
Take me up on the $1000 challenge. I'll add to it. Any water added to your mixture in any way will make you lose power with all else staying the same.
If you keep arguing but refuse to take me up on the $1000 challenge then I can only assume you came here to argue til the thread gets locked rather than engage in an honest discussion for the benefit of the community.
Let me just say that this arguing isn't needed. I know some of you guys aren't going to understand this. I've argued in threads claiming the idea of 1/2 water 1/2 gas is legit. People actually believe you can run your car on 1/2 water and make statement about the hydrogen and oxygen molecules and call me a retard, blah blah. Those debates don't go anywhere when people refuse to be logical or think they are logical when they understand 10% of the equation.
Take me up on the $1000 challenge. I'll add to it. Any water added to your mixture in any way will make you lose power with all else staying the same.
If you keep arguing but refuse to take me up on the $1000 challenge then I can only assume you came here to argue til the thread gets locked rather than engage in an honest discussion for the benefit of the community.
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From: Pittsburgh PA
so if i show a back to back pull of pulleys and the smaller pulley makes more power i get 1000bucks??? or if i show that wmi makes more power i get 1000bucks??? Sorry haha I just know i'm heading to the dyno fairly soon.
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
water injection nozzles and pressure is based upon fuel injector size, and air movement. doing half fuel and half water in a gas tank is a stupid way of trying to compare it.
Well to the $1000 challenge, all things staying the same on the tune and fueling, yes you'd lose power.
Now if done the CORRECT WAY, and the car is tuned for it, you will definitely make more power over a non injected car. Hands down, the end.
Now if done the CORRECT WAY, and the car is tuned for it, you will definitely make more power over a non injected car. Hands down, the end.
The $1000 challenge allows you to tune the car for the water. You can tune all you like. I'm saying that I will be able to remove the WI kit and make more power on the car without it, presumably with a larger pulley.
In the context of this thread asking about a 2.6" pulley the test would go something like this:
You have a 2.6" pulley, some mods including your injection kit. You can spray water or blue washer fluid. You tune the car for the 2.6 with the meth kit and end up with whatever HP you end up with. I then take over and retune the car with a larger pulley, removing the meth kit and make more power. Whoever losese pays for dyno time and if I lose, I also give you a grand. Our dyno is open M-F. I hope that's clear but with my posts it never seems to be for some reason...
In the context of this thread asking about a 2.6" pulley the test would go something like this:
You have a 2.6" pulley, some mods including your injection kit. You can spray water or blue washer fluid. You tune the car for the 2.6 with the meth kit and end up with whatever HP you end up with. I then take over and retune the car with a larger pulley, removing the meth kit and make more power. Whoever losese pays for dyno time and if I lose, I also give you a grand. Our dyno is open M-F. I hope that's clear but with my posts it never seems to be for some reason...
