Clutch slip test. I have new info!
06-11-2006, 11:41 PM
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Clutch slip test. I have new info!
Ok so I took the car out and did some testing with the clutch and you will never belive what I found.
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
I'm not convinced that the clutch is the problem. I think its the hydraulics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has to be some thing in there that is slowing the release and thus the clutch slips if you get on it to hard and to fast right after a shift.
I'm thinking that one possibility might be that there is some contaminants in the fluid from the factory and this could be part of the problem.
I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see it they can get me pics of all the parts of the system and maybe order them so I can put the hole thing together out side of the car and test it to see if I'm right.
I'm also going to talk to one of the tecs along with the service manager about this to see what they think.
So if your clutch has just started to slip and has not done it vary much go try what I did and let us know what you find ok.
If its been doing it for a while you might have glazed it the point where this will not help but try it any way.
Sorry this is so long but I'm really trying to find a fix for this for us and before we can fix it we need to find the REAL problem and be 100% sure of it.
Later
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
I'm not convinced that the clutch is the problem. I think its the hydraulics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has to be some thing in there that is slowing the release and thus the clutch slips if you get on it to hard and to fast right after a shift.
I'm thinking that one possibility might be that there is some contaminants in the fluid from the factory and this could be part of the problem.
I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see it they can get me pics of all the parts of the system and maybe order them so I can put the hole thing together out side of the car and test it to see if I'm right.
I'm also going to talk to one of the tecs along with the service manager about this to see what they think.
So if your clutch has just started to slip and has not done it vary much go try what I did and let us know what you find ok.
If its been doing it for a while you might have glazed it the point where this will not help but try it any way.
Sorry this is so long but I'm really trying to find a fix for this for us and before we can fix it we need to find the REAL problem and be 100% sure of it.
Later
06-12-2006, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Badmunky
Ok so I took the car out and did some testing with the clutch and you will never belive what I found.
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
Later
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
Later
Here's how I have a problem with the clutch
I will be in first gear with clutch out. then drive slowly up to 3,000 rpm. (now your thinking why would anyone do this. read on) then hammer the gas and usually would just peel out and go. Instead no tire slipping, engine boucing off the rev limiter, and I am stunned "what just happened". my fooot is not even on the clutch.
I dont get stunned anymore. clutch pressure plate is just weak on some of these cars. some work well and some dont.
How did i discover this? I am driving along and get boxed in. I wait till there is room for me to get by so I leave it in first ready to hammer it and leave them in the dust. Bam,, wha wha wha, **** no go.
shitty clutch.
06-12-2006, 08:36 AM
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Well if your not going to be nice thne please dont post!
Im trying to help people here not give you something to flame about.
And your clutch is defintly tosted.
Mine only slips on a hard 1-2 shift. And after some testing I found that the problem seams to be that the hydraulics dont release the clutch fast enuff.
I can go almost full throttle in 1st with no spil at all but if I clutch at say 2,500 Rpm in 1st gear and thne let it out and slam on it it will slip. If I give it .5 sec longer then normal it will grab and go.
You may have a problem with your clutch pressure plate but most of us dont.
Most cars only slip after the shift at first and then after doing this enuff it starts to slip all the time.
Any one with any usfull info?
Im trying to help people here not give you something to flame about.
And your clutch is defintly tosted.
Mine only slips on a hard 1-2 shift. And after some testing I found that the problem seams to be that the hydraulics dont release the clutch fast enuff.
I can go almost full throttle in 1st with no spil at all but if I clutch at say 2,500 Rpm in 1st gear and thne let it out and slam on it it will slip. If I give it .5 sec longer then normal it will grab and go.
You may have a problem with your clutch pressure plate but most of us dont.
Most cars only slip after the shift at first and then after doing this enuff it starts to slip all the time.
Any one with any usfull info?
06-12-2006, 08:47 AM
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This is how I see it, I have about the most miles out of anyone on this stock clutch (I hit 40k over the weekend).
My first to second is always slippage but that is not to say it's because I abuse it (which honestly I don't, don't have money to spend on a new clutch at the momment.).
My second to third grabs hard but only after I force third in the heat of the momment.
If of course you wait for a few seconds between gears then yes it will grab regards of what RPM set you are at in the gear. My conclusion is the fact that the motor is going at a faster rate then the transmission can handle. You have to take into consideration GM made this car only to work with "X" amount of HP at specification when it left the factory. When you add power of course the car is going to freak out, the parts from the factory weren't designed to go outside of spec.
That goes with any car. The trans in this car I will say is good to hold the power but the parts they used for the stock application are only GOOD for the STOCK appplication. There are so many variables that need to be replaced in this car, clutch, flywheel, hydralics etc.
I think it would almost be to everyones benefit if the gearing on this car was changed where 1st gear was useable. First gear is a waste of time personally for me. You can't do anything with it until you get all the variables to grab the pavement out of the way first.
Wanna know one more thing? Most of the time people complaining about the stock clutches are the ones who can't drive IMO. The stock clutch works fine in the OEM capacity it was designed for. Anything over it's spec means it should be replaced. That's my 2 cents.
My first to second is always slippage but that is not to say it's because I abuse it (which honestly I don't, don't have money to spend on a new clutch at the momment.).
My second to third grabs hard but only after I force third in the heat of the momment.
If of course you wait for a few seconds between gears then yes it will grab regards of what RPM set you are at in the gear. My conclusion is the fact that the motor is going at a faster rate then the transmission can handle. You have to take into consideration GM made this car only to work with "X" amount of HP at specification when it left the factory. When you add power of course the car is going to freak out, the parts from the factory weren't designed to go outside of spec.
That goes with any car. The trans in this car I will say is good to hold the power but the parts they used for the stock application are only GOOD for the STOCK appplication. There are so many variables that need to be replaced in this car, clutch, flywheel, hydralics etc.
I think it would almost be to everyones benefit if the gearing on this car was changed where 1st gear was useable. First gear is a waste of time personally for me. You can't do anything with it until you get all the variables to grab the pavement out of the way first.
Wanna know one more thing? Most of the time people complaining about the stock clutches are the ones who can't drive IMO. The stock clutch works fine in the OEM capacity it was designed for. Anything over it's spec means it should be replaced. That's my 2 cents.
06-12-2006, 09:00 AM
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GM ses that the clutch will hold and should not have any problems with Stage 1 or 2. And I dont think a filter and a catt back make enuff power to couse a problem here..lol If they do then that was money well spent. LOL
I am a truck driver and have driven a stick for years with no problems.
There is a problem with this car adn you your self even said you get some slip on the 1-2 shift.
You should not get any slip on the 1-2 shift unless your making alot more power then GM stage 2 and im makeing at most 15hp more. Thats nothing.
Im going to the dealer in a min to see what they say.
Later
I am a truck driver and have driven a stick for years with no problems.
There is a problem with this car adn you your self even said you get some slip on the 1-2 shift.
You should not get any slip on the 1-2 shift unless your making alot more power then GM stage 2 and im makeing at most 15hp more. Thats nothing.
Im going to the dealer in a min to see what they say.
Later
06-12-2006, 09:02 AM
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The slip I think is the just the power transfer between the two applications (engine to transmission), I don't think the clutch is at fault. That is what I was trying to make a point in the first post.
06-12-2006, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ssnipes
shitty clutch.
06-12-2006, 10:59 AM
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Man, if you guys are power-shifting, I would only assume that this would cause problems with the tranny/clutch? Is power-shifting not fairly bad for your car?
Thanks for the info though, I'd like to hear what GM says. I'm waiting to get stage II until all this clutch nonsense is figured out.
Thanks for the info though, I'd like to hear what GM says. I'm waiting to get stage II until all this clutch nonsense is figured out.
06-12-2006, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tomtwtwtw
So you're saying in a nutshell you get less slippage from granny-shifting than you do power-shifting? Seems like common sense to me... 
06-12-2006, 01:28 PM
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By power shiftin what I mean is this.
redline, Clutch adn drop fuel, shift, drop clutch adn get back on fuel fast.
I guess you could call it speed shifting not power shifting.
Its the same thing you all do when you run your car hard.
I have some new info on my clutch for you that might help you guys to.
I took it to the dealer today and had a tec tack it for a ride.
We found that some times the clutch will slip but others it will grab??? WTF???
After 15 runs the clutch would grab hard on one and spin the tires one the 1-2 shift and then the next run it will slip. Do it agen and it might slip but it might grab to.
This made no sens to us at all.
Who drove the car did not mater. It still did not grab hard every time. But it did some times.
The tec is going to replace the Clutch master cylinder and bleed the clutch tomarrow at 9am.
He thinks the problem is in the hydralics aas well and thats where we are starting.
Ill keep this updated as we test untill we get the problem fixed.
Later
redline, Clutch adn drop fuel, shift, drop clutch adn get back on fuel fast.
I guess you could call it speed shifting not power shifting.
Its the same thing you all do when you run your car hard.
I have some new info on my clutch for you that might help you guys to.
I took it to the dealer today and had a tec tack it for a ride.
We found that some times the clutch will slip but others it will grab??? WTF???
After 15 runs the clutch would grab hard on one and spin the tires one the 1-2 shift and then the next run it will slip. Do it agen and it might slip but it might grab to.
This made no sens to us at all.
Who drove the car did not mater. It still did not grab hard every time. But it did some times.
The tec is going to replace the Clutch master cylinder and bleed the clutch tomarrow at 9am.
He thinks the problem is in the hydralics aas well and thats where we are starting.
Ill keep this updated as we test untill we get the problem fixed.
Later
06-12-2006, 01:36 PM
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Yeah it's definately not the clutch then. It has to be something else. My clutch is SO SO soft yet it still grabs pretty hard. I don't get it. It gets softer and softer every week but it grabs just as much when I drive aggressively as it did the week before.
06-12-2006, 01:37 PM
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please god let us know what happens with this I already replaced my clutch and when they took it out the guys were like your clutch looked fine the only thing they said was that is might have been glazed a little replace that slave and bleed the hydros and let us know what happens
06-12-2006, 02:35 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Badmunky
Ok so I took the car out and did some testing with the clutch and you will never belive what I found.
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
I'm not convinced that the clutch is the problem. I think its the hydraulics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has to be some thing in there that is slowing the release and thus the clutch slips if you get on it to hard and to fast right after a shift.
I'm thinking that one possibility might be that there is some contaminants in the fluid from the factory and this could be part of the problem.
I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see it they can get me pics of all the parts of the system and maybe order them so I can put the hole thing together out side of the car and test it to see if I'm right.
I'm also going to talk to one of the tecs along with the service manager about this to see what they think.
So if your clutch has just started to slip and has not done it vary much go try what I did and let us know what you find ok.
If its been doing it for a while you might have glazed it the point where this will not help but try it any way.
Sorry this is so long but I'm really trying to find a fix for this for us and before we can fix it we need to find the REAL problem and be 100% sure of it.
Later
Ok my first test was to run the car hard and power shift it from 1st to 2nd 3 times.
Now as usual the clutch slipped every time. Nothing new there!
Now here is where I found something new.
I let it cool a few min and ran it again but this time a shifter it at redline same as last but insted of power shifting it I shifted it and then gave it .5 sec before geting back on the power and BAM! No slip!!!!!!! I did this 10 times in a row and still no slip at all!!!!
Now this is not the fastes way to change gears but it doesn't kill your clutch!
Others need to test this and se if it works for them and if so we know its not the clutch giving us the problem.
I'm not convinced that the clutch is the problem. I think its the hydraulics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has to be some thing in there that is slowing the release and thus the clutch slips if you get on it to hard and to fast right after a shift.
I'm thinking that one possibility might be that there is some contaminants in the fluid from the factory and this could be part of the problem.
I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see it they can get me pics of all the parts of the system and maybe order them so I can put the hole thing together out side of the car and test it to see if I'm right.
I'm also going to talk to one of the tecs along with the service manager about this to see what they think.
So if your clutch has just started to slip and has not done it vary much go try what I did and let us know what you find ok.
If its been doing it for a while you might have glazed it the point where this will not help but try it any way.
Sorry this is so long but I'm really trying to find a fix for this for us and before we can fix it we need to find the REAL problem and be 100% sure of it.
Later
so you're saying that you shifted the way it's MEANT to be shifted, and there was no problems... i hope more people read your post
06-12-2006, 04:36 PM
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I had my clutch in and replaced through the dealer and under warranty. The Pressure plate, flywheel, slave cylinder, and something else down there was replaced. He said everything was toast. He also said he had contacted GM and GM said that there were a lot of problems with the clutches showing up. So if you could figure this out for sure you would be saving the lives of the innocent.
06-12-2006, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Badmunky
By power shiftin what I mean is this.
redline, Clutch adn drop fuel, shift, drop clutch adn get back on fuel fast.
I guess you could call it speed shifting not power shifting.
redline, Clutch adn drop fuel, shift, drop clutch adn get back on fuel fast.
I guess you could call it speed shifting not power shifting.
Let us know what happens!
06-12-2006, 05:54 PM
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if the cylinder is malfunctioning than theres not enough force being put on the pressure plate. Mine is getting fixed friday.....it has taken forever but I will let you guys know if that solves the problem of my clutch slipping.
Almost 90% of what Badmunky has done/tried I have found similar results. I just hope that the clutch isn't messed but it has been slipping for almost a month now.
Honestly, love my car and lil problems I dont give a rats ass about, clutch and respective parts should not be f-ing up. This pisses me off.
GM you suck
Almost 90% of what Badmunky has done/tried I have found similar results. I just hope that the clutch isn't messed but it has been slipping for almost a month now.
Honestly, love my car and lil problems I dont give a rats ass about, clutch and respective parts should not be f-ing up. This pisses me off.
GM you suck
06-12-2006, 05:59 PM
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Anyone who thinks the Cobalt clutch hyraulics suck should go drive a 1998-1999 F-Body.
GM put a screen in the hose that goes to the slave cylinder so that the fluid would have some restriction to prevent driveline shock. The clutch is normal until a nice fast shift, then it gets really squishy since it foams the fluid then it engages in different spots or gets stuck to the floor!
I have a feelling that the hydraulics on the SS/SC are either to weak or there is a similar restriction in the lines.
GM put a screen in the hose that goes to the slave cylinder so that the fluid would have some restriction to prevent driveline shock. The clutch is normal until a nice fast shift, then it gets really squishy since it foams the fluid then it engages in different spots or gets stuck to the floor!
I have a feelling that the hydraulics on the SS/SC are either to weak or there is a similar restriction in the lines.
06-12-2006, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcS
just about 23k miles and i've been driving it hard. My clutch has never slipped.
06-13-2006, 09:31 AM
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Ok guys Im at the dealre adn have some info for you.
1st. The clutch master cylinder and the lines are all the same parts as the 2.2L and 2.4L cars.
So if the problem was in these parts all cobalt should be having the problem not just the SS S/C.
2nd. The SS S/C gets a diferant slave cylinder then the other cars do. And Im thinking the problem is right here.
3rd The clutch line is 2 pices adn a T fiting thing with a bleader in it.
4th. There is some kind of thin spacer the gose in betwean the trans and the motor.
If you changed your clutch adn did not put this back in the tec ses it could be a problem.
There changing my master cylinder right now.
Im not sure how long this will take but they have had the car for about 30 min now and its looking like I will not get it back for about another 1-1.5 hours.
Later
1st. The clutch master cylinder and the lines are all the same parts as the 2.2L and 2.4L cars.
So if the problem was in these parts all cobalt should be having the problem not just the SS S/C.
2nd. The SS S/C gets a diferant slave cylinder then the other cars do. And Im thinking the problem is right here.
3rd The clutch line is 2 pices adn a T fiting thing with a bleader in it.
4th. There is some kind of thin spacer the gose in betwean the trans and the motor.
If you changed your clutch adn did not put this back in the tec ses it could be a problem.
There changing my master cylinder right now.
Im not sure how long this will take but they have had the car for about 30 min now and its looking like I will not get it back for about another 1-1.5 hours.
Later