stroker lsj build
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Joined: 02-01-11
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From: modesto
lol...Im doin all this to try and hold this thing together..lol
i will be happy to get 10k miles out of this engine..lol
there will be more holes to drill lol. this is just the start..
i will be happy to get 10k miles out of this engine..lol
there will be more holes to drill lol. this is just the start..
yup. I don't like the "poke and hope" method of high performance engine building. I use micrometers and dial bore gauges instead of plastigauge. I use a weather station at the track instead of guessing. I use a flowbench to tell me if the modifications I make to the port increase or decrease airflow. I use wet flow to see if polishing a chamber leaves fuel puddles...
lots of people use wideband air fuel gauges to check numbers. people monitor IDC, and on and on.....I don't know jack about tuning, but a timing table is ALL NUMBERS
cars ARE math and science.
gut feeling has a place, and experience can't be ignored, but you can't automatically discount a "numbers approach"
assuming a port flows well, or sees an increase just because it's big and shiny is naive. I'd lay money he got gains with that port job, but how much? is the exhaust capable of keeping up? are there dead spots in the bowl or runner that he doesn't know about ?
a flowbench is a useful tool, just as a dyno is. Both can be helpful, or they can be just plain silly wastes of money and time. The information gleaned must be used properly or it's worthless.
Ultimately, you can't drive (or race) a flowbench or a dyno, but that doesn't mean they're bullshit.
lots of people use wideband air fuel gauges to check numbers. people monitor IDC, and on and on.....I don't know jack about tuning, but a timing table is ALL NUMBERS
cars ARE math and science.
gut feeling has a place, and experience can't be ignored, but you can't automatically discount a "numbers approach"
assuming a port flows well, or sees an increase just because it's big and shiny is naive. I'd lay money he got gains with that port job, but how much? is the exhaust capable of keeping up? are there dead spots in the bowl or runner that he doesn't know about ?
a flowbench is a useful tool, just as a dyno is. Both can be helpful, or they can be just plain silly wastes of money and time. The information gleaned must be used properly or it's worthless.
Ultimately, you can't drive (or race) a flowbench or a dyno, but that doesn't mean they're bullshit.
Last edited by wayfarer; Nov 1, 2012 at 02:32 PM. Reason: misspelling
Thread Starter
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Joined: 02-01-11
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From: modesto
good info...
Most of use cant spend the money to buy that or pay some one to flow it...
Im just going with the numbers i have came up with...
the stock port inlet is tapered alot..
Most of use cant spend the money to buy that or pay some one to flow it...
Im just going with the numbers i have came up with...
the stock port inlet is tapered alot..
yup. I don't like the "poke and hope" method of high performance engine building. I use micrometers and dial bore gauges instead of plastigauge. I use a weather station at the track instead of guessing. I use a flowbench to tell me if the modifications I make to the port increase or decrease airflow. I use wet flow to see if polishing a chamber leaves fuel puddles...
lots of people use wideband air fuel gauges to check numbers. people monitor IDC, and on and on.....I don't know jack about tuning, but a timing table is ALL NUMBERS
cars ARE math and science.
gut feeling has a place, and experience can't be ignored, but you can't automatically discount a "numbers approach"
assuming a port flows well, or sees an increase just because it's big and shiny is naive. I'd lay money he got gains with that port job, but how much? is the exhaust capable of keeping up? are there dead spots in the bowl or runner that he doesn't know about ?
a flowbench is a useful tool, just as a dyno is. Both can be helpful, or they can be just plain silly wastes of money and time. The information gleaned must be used properly or it's worthless.
Ultimately, you can't drive (or race) a flowbench or a dyno, but that doesn't mean they're bullshit.
lots of people use wideband air fuel gauges to check numbers. people monitor IDC, and on and on.....I don't know jack about tuning, but a timing table is ALL NUMBERS
cars ARE math and science.
gut feeling has a place, and experience can't be ignored, but you can't automatically discount a "numbers approach"
assuming a port flows well, or sees an increase just because it's big and shiny is naive. I'd lay money he got gains with that port job, but how much? is the exhaust capable of keeping up? are there dead spots in the bowl or runner that he doesn't know about ?
a flowbench is a useful tool, just as a dyno is. Both can be helpful, or they can be just plain silly wastes of money and time. The information gleaned must be used properly or it's worthless.
Ultimately, you can't drive (or race) a flowbench or a dyno, but that doesn't mean they're bullshit.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
i never said flow beches were useless but to many people get hung up on numbers and every flow bench will always give you a different set of numbers so what do you believe that is why i dont take certian numbers as gosphel but on the lsj head you will never get an exhaust port to keep up with the intake(or even most heads the ex wont keep up) its just to dam small and any port modification on the lsj head will yield more airflow. just smoothing out and getting rid of the flash on the intake will yeild a 30cfm increase as for a numbers approach to a small point you can take it that way but just because it works great on paper dosent always mean it will work in real world conditions
good point
i never said flow benches were useless but you did insinuate it, and that I am stupid for asking for numbers but too many people get hung up on numbers and every flow bench will always give you a different set of numbers this is true, comparing numbers between machines has to be taken with a grain of salt so what do you believe you seem to believe that anyone who wants to talk about numbers is an idiot, and seek to squelch any sort of discussion on the topic that is why i dont take certain numbers as gospel as well you shouldn't. Like you said, every bench is different, but, so is every casting, every person who ports, and each individual port within a head but on the lsj head you will never get an exhaust port to keep up with the intake(or even most heads the ex wont keep up) but you can quantify the difference and work within accepted norms for percentage of flow, which have been established with decades of flowbench testing and then BACKED UP WITH REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE its just to damn small and any port modification on the lsj head will yield more airflow. I guarantee an amateur with a die grinder can modify a port and hurt flow and power production just smoothing out and getting rid of the flash on the intake will yeild a 30cfm increase cool! I'll keep that in mind when I work my head and quantify the changes on the flowbench! (thanks for the number mr. anti number guy!) as for a numbers approach to a small point you can take it that way but
just because it works great on paper doesn't always mean it will work in real world conditions this is absolutely true. taking a numbers approach will give you an idea of what you need on paper, but eventually you have to prove it on the pavement. sometimes you fail, but you fail less if you get educated first
just because it works great on paper doesn't always mean it will work in real world conditions this is absolutely true. taking a numbers approach will give you an idea of what you need on paper, but eventually you have to prove it on the pavement. sometimes you fail, but you fail less if you get educated first
Last edited by wayfarer; Nov 1, 2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: spelling
Thread Starter
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Joined: 02-01-11
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From: modesto
this is very good info here...
lets not turn this into a war!!!
both have very good points..
Im doing this with wat i know and wat Im learning..
Im open to any help i can get..
and wen this build is over and i get the car on a few different dynos and some track time ill be making a new build thread with most of this info...Im keeping some of it under wraps..
lets not turn this into a war!!!
both have very good points..
Im doing this with wat i know and wat Im learning..
Im open to any help i can get..
and wen this build is over and i get the car on a few different dynos and some track time ill be making a new build thread with most of this info...Im keeping some of it under wraps..
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
gona get it flowed cuz this build is all or nothing.
Im trying to give the m62 every chance it can get...lol
my hp goal with that on e85R. most will laugh at..that's y i haven't posted my dyno numbers from the build i have now...
Im trying to give the m62 every chance it can get...lol
my hp goal with that on e85R. most will laugh at..that's y i haven't posted my dyno numbers from the build i have now...