TVS Performance? what is its limits?
This spring and summer will be interesting with what can be had from the TVS.
I, for one, could care less about peak horsepower and am much more interested in the area under the torque curve in the RPM range that I will be looking for power. I will probably never drag race my car, so, straight line performance is taking a back seat to power on stability coming out of a corner.
I now see that I made an error in not spec'ing for the porting of the cylinder head when it was out of the car. Oh well, by the end of the summer I will swap in a ported head. I am only doing the springs at this point and not the ones that I will end up with. I will be very interested in how differing cams respond with the TVS.
I, for one, could care less about peak horsepower and am much more interested in the area under the torque curve in the RPM range that I will be looking for power. I will probably never drag race my car, so, straight line performance is taking a back seat to power on stability coming out of a corner.
I now see that I made an error in not spec'ing for the porting of the cylinder head when it was out of the car. Oh well, by the end of the summer I will swap in a ported head. I am only doing the springs at this point and not the ones that I will end up with. I will be very interested in how differing cams respond with the TVS.
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well... zoomer. im sorry you seem to feed on and tangle yourself in internet arguments.
ArielAtom, you are correct. Peak horsepower doesnt mean much.. average power to the wheels is what matters.. and being able to get that power exactly when you need it.
Far many users on here are far to fixated on "Dyno Queens"... very few actually have a handle on what vehicle performance is relative to engine power/torque
ArielAtom, you are correct. Peak horsepower doesnt mean much.. average power to the wheels is what matters.. and being able to get that power exactly when you need it.
Far many users on here are far to fixated on "Dyno Queens"... very few actually have a handle on what vehicle performance is relative to engine power/torque
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
well... zoomer. im sorry you seem to feed on and tangle yourself in internet arguments.
ArielAtom, you are correct. Peak horsepower doesnt mean much.. average power to the wheels is what matters.. and being able to get that power exactly when you need it.
Far many users on here are far to fixated on "Dyno Queens"... very few actually have a handle on what vehicle performance is relative to engine power/torque
ArielAtom, you are correct. Peak horsepower doesnt mean much.. average power to the wheels is what matters.. and being able to get that power exactly when you need it.
Far many users on here are far to fixated on "Dyno Queens"... very few actually have a handle on what vehicle performance is relative to engine power/torque
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i havent bought from zzp or ottp yet, i do have experience talking to one of them, and so far the customer service is the best i've seen from any vendor, you know who you are... i think the vendors should be a little less involved/aggressive in the threads, it might turn off potential customers, the personal issues and comments should be directed through pms at the vendor level, as a vendor, public image and trust should be top priority... thats just my .02, this post has nothing to do with the thread topic, it will be my first and last post on this thread...
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From: Columbus, Ohio
and yet neither do you, but yet you still decide to tell him not to get the tvs because the 350whp goal is "unrealistic". you have not tested or tuned a tvs car. if you're so knowledgeable in the world of cobalts, why not obtain one for yourself (hey - you could have gotten it cheap on the GB from your competitor...
) and do your own testing on the tvs - either to prove or to disprove it. put some real numbers down and then come back and tell us what you could "realistically" expect.
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From: RTP, NC
The whole point of the forums is so you don't have to try everything yourself to find out it if works, that is why people post up their results. People keep arguing that oh you haven't tried the TVS so you should be saying it can't make 350whp.
We you don't have to try the TVS because you can just look at other's posts, so unless every TVS tester is lying and giving HP numbers lower than the actual results of their tests you aren't getting 350whp from a TVS unless you figure out some new way of being able to squeeze out more HP from it.
And vendors are here to sell their products, it's pretty obvious they pay a fee to be here. I absolutely hate when people state the obvious like the OP and everyone else in the thread can't understand Zoomer is a vendor and he is trying to make a living and sell cobalt parts. Thanx for assuming we are so stupid and you are so smart and sly. And yes I am defending a vendor because I have seen the bandwagon's of haters come and go for vendor a, b, c ..... x, y, z.
We you don't have to try the TVS because you can just look at other's posts, so unless every TVS tester is lying and giving HP numbers lower than the actual results of their tests you aren't getting 350whp from a TVS unless you figure out some new way of being able to squeeze out more HP from it.
And vendors are here to sell their products, it's pretty obvious they pay a fee to be here. I absolutely hate when people state the obvious like the OP and everyone else in the thread can't understand Zoomer is a vendor and he is trying to make a living and sell cobalt parts. Thanx for assuming we are so stupid and you are so smart and sly. And yes I am defending a vendor because I have seen the bandwagon's of haters come and go for vendor a, b, c ..... x, y, z.
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From: Columbus, Ohio
The whole point of the forums is so you don't have to try everything yourself to find out it if works, that is why people post up their results. People keep arguing that oh you haven't tried the TVS so you should be saying it can't make 350whp.
We you don't have to try the TVS because you can just look at other's posts, so unless every TVS tester is lying and giving HP numbers lower than the actual results of their tests you aren't getting 350whp from a TVS unless you figure out some new way of being able to squeeze out more HP from it.
And vendors are here to sell their products, it's pretty obvious they pay a fee to be here. I absolutely hate when people state the obvious like the OP and everyone else in the thread can't understand Zoomer is a vendor and he is trying to make a living and sell cobalt parts. Thanx for assuming we are so stupid and you are so smart and sly. And yes I am defending a vendor because I have seen the bandwagon's of haters come and go for vendor a, b, c ..... x, y, z.
We you don't have to try the TVS because you can just look at other's posts, so unless every TVS tester is lying and giving HP numbers lower than the actual results of their tests you aren't getting 350whp from a TVS unless you figure out some new way of being able to squeeze out more HP from it.
And vendors are here to sell their products, it's pretty obvious they pay a fee to be here. I absolutely hate when people state the obvious like the OP and everyone else in the thread can't understand Zoomer is a vendor and he is trying to make a living and sell cobalt parts. Thanx for assuming we are so stupid and you are so smart and sly. And yes I am defending a vendor because I have seen the bandwagon's of haters come and go for vendor a, b, c ..... x, y, z.
point taken. but zoomer should not be saying it is unrealistic to see 350whp on a tvs if they have never tested one themselves. he uses dyno numbers from the dyno thread that hasn't been updated in how long, and most of those numbers are quite old, with a relatively small amount of tuning. i understand that zzp is a vendor and his whole reason for being here is to sell parts for cobalts, but there are ways for him to make his points without making the rest of us feel stupid
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From: minnesota
by looking at 60' et and trap and elevation you can compare a car to any car that has ever been at a drag strip
i think zoomer said he did this, but you have to say my car made xxx hp and stage II made xxx hp for anyone to actually know what dyno numbers mean
i think drag times are nicer because you can compare it to a lot more cars than you can on a dyno
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From: louisville k.y
it think 330 to340whp can happen on a stock moter.Add cams and a fully ported head with bigger valves,some crankshaft work i dont see any reason why a tvs moter couldent make 400 or better whp. come on guys we need to be a team here lets quit fussing and work together. Im not going to hide anything from anybody, if i learn something i will share it with you guy im not going to find something that works good and not tell anyone cause i dont want to see any one blow their moter.
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From: Port Perry Ontario
point taken. but zoomer should not be saying it is unrealistic to see 350whp on a tvs if they have never tested one themselves. he uses dyno numbers from the dyno thread that hasn't been updated in how long, and most of those numbers are quite old, with a relatively small amount of tuning. i understand that zzp is a vendor and his whole reason for being here is to sell parts for cobalts, but there are ways for him to make his points without making the rest of us feel stupid
The forum is full of folks like you tennpenn who are doing a pretty good job with limited resources on your own, like others who are hard pressed to add oil and need a "how to" to wash their cars, to still others who break their cars on a daily basis being stupid, and then others who really know their stuff and have great credentials and will help up to a point but dont want to explain all of it - its their hard won knowledge and they are making aliving doing it.
I am sad that Zoomer is, as I have said, so abusive of folks here, it wont help his business. Tennpenn dont feel bad, you are not alone, and the TVS is a heck of a deal, thats why so many folks are buying them. Good for Josh he deserves it for all the help he gives folks without abuse and asking for nothing more than consideration when folks buy something.
Last edited by qwikredline; Mar 1, 2009 at 04:32 PM. Reason: spelling
The TVS would be a poor choice if you were aiming for 350WHP. There are dozens of people running them and they usually dyno around 300WHP. Sure it's very possible to do higher but it doesn't make sense to do a build that averages ~300 and shoot for 350. a turbo set would be the way to go for hitting that power.
Your not the only ones with a trick up your sleeve. What do ya say first one to a time slip proven 11 wins?and yet neither do you, but yet you still decide to tell him not to get the tvs because the 350whp goal is "unrealistic". you have not tested or tuned a tvs car. if you're so knowledgeable in the world of cobalts, why not obtain one for yourself (hey - you could have gotten it cheap on the GB from your competitor... and do your own testing on the tvs - either to prove or to disprove it. put some real numbers down and then come back and tell us what you could "realistically" expect.
point taken. but zoomer should not be saying it is unrealistic to see 350whp on a tvs if they have never tested one themselves. he uses dyno numbers from the dyno thread that hasn't been updated in how long, and most of those numbers are quite old, with a relatively small amount of tuning. i understand that zzp is a vendor and his whole reason for being here is to sell parts for cobalts, but there are ways for him to make his points without making the rest of us feel stupid
Looking at the last 6 TVS dynos posted on SS.net, they were all under 300. I had been mocked for saying ~300 is realistic.
Called out on 11's first. eh hem.
Told that ZZP has no TVS experience. Think what you want, we do. There were no dynos over 300WHP at our shop though.
and the list goes on. Now my point isn't to start another flame war. It's simply this: I was telling the truth and giving good advice. I was correct and quite exact on all my numbers. Everyone I quoted above was against me and every single person ended up being incorrect. Maybe next time my ideas and information can be treated with a little respect. In doing so people shopping for parts, wondering what IS realisitic to expect when they put their car on the dyno after spending 2 grand, and looking at future purchases can be better educated. After all, giving people incorrect, false, and lofty expectations is not a very ethical way to run a forum.
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Sounds like Zoomer is still avoiding my original call-out :
Zoomer, you say you have a supercharger dyno? Prove it. Show some charts.
And btw, 285whp (what I put down) is reasonable to expect on a base tune with very conservative timing and a 11.3-ish afr. Think I'm not over 300 yet?
Zoomer, you say you have a supercharger dyno? Prove it. Show some charts.
And btw, 285whp (what I put down) is reasonable to expect on a base tune with very conservative timing and a 11.3-ish afr. Think I'm not over 300 yet?
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
Give 10 people a 2.8" pulley. We know that makes around 255hp... These 10 people include the ones who ask "what is the best exhaust?" and "im running a 2.6 on a stage 2 tune, why did my car break"...
those 10 people go and dyno... Not all of them will hit 255hp (because the tuning knowledge is different)... But we know its possible...
Its apparent that it is possible to hit 350hp... Even more possible to hit over 300hp... But generalizing information by averaging the people who expected wtfpower from what a canned tune, stock pulley TVS car can make doesnt seem accurate.
those 10 people go and dyno... Not all of them will hit 255hp (because the tuning knowledge is different)... But we know its possible...
Its apparent that it is possible to hit 350hp... Even more possible to hit over 300hp... But generalizing information by averaging the people who expected wtfpower from what a canned tune, stock pulley TVS car can make doesnt seem accurate.
Last edited by ShortStack; Jun 16, 2009 at 06:22 PM.
the problem is with dynos, we dont have a refrence point.
by looking at 60' et and trap and elevation you can compare a car to any car that has ever been at a drag strip
i think zoomer said he did this, but you have to say my car made xxx hp and stage II made xxx hp for anyone to actually know what dyno numbers mean
i think drag times are nicer because you can compare it to a lot more cars than you can on a dyno
by looking at 60' et and trap and elevation you can compare a car to any car that has ever been at a drag strip
i think zoomer said he did this, but you have to say my car made xxx hp and stage II made xxx hp for anyone to actually know what dyno numbers mean
i think drag times are nicer because you can compare it to a lot more cars than you can on a dyno
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From: louisville k.y