I took apart another bad pump from a Cobalt and got it fixed pretty quickly. That makes 2 for 2. If people have some bad pumps I'd be interested in buying them cheap or fixing them for a small fee. LMK.

The Meziere pump is over 5 pounds, more than 3 pounds heavier than the OEM pump. This is 1/3 of a WHP equivilant. I do not believe it outflows a stock pump but even it if did, I don't think it's possible to gain back 1/3 of a HP. I'll run more tests and get more data though...

 

[QUOTE=1badBlueberrySC;3556005]This isn't coolant temp... this is the I/C fluid temps... or IAT2 temperatures![/QUO

i understand this.

 

thats the difference between wearing a sweatchirt and jeans versus a t shirt and shorts... i understand it all adds up, but weight isnt really an issue... most of us aren't making pure drag cars

 

How does 3 lbs equal 1/3 of a WHP?

 

the old saying "every 10lbs lighter is the same as gaining 1hp"

 

Weight reduction is better than making more HP. saying that weight doesn't matter is worse than saying HP doesn't matter. the entire forum section is about making the car perform better. the cars make 210 WHP stock and 260 WHP fully mod'd with all the mods people talk about on the forum. (just rough #'s). so you have 50 HP total with all the mods people are debating and using. I think this makes weight even more critical since the market is currently so HP limited.

Running all heavy parts vs. a guy who chose his mods more carefully is the difference between losing all your races and breaking all the time vs. having a fast reliable setup.

 

i am well aware of the advantages of weight reduction in a vehicle. You should stop assuming the members on this board know nothing. However, in THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I would greatly sacrifice the "equivalent to 1/3 horsepower" in weight if it means cooler IAT2's of 15*, allowing 2* more timing, resulting in 6 more hp and a safer engine. You decide: 1/3hp? or 6hp?
Now if you said the aftermarket water pump weighed in at 200lbs, then thats a different issue, however, it should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain that on the scale of a couple pounds, no one on here gives a ****! a couple pounds can be lost if you take a **** before your race! If you drive barefoot! if you take off your sweater and jacket! Yes it all adds up, but no one needs to worry about every couple pounds that can be saved throughout their car in a DD. If they did, no one would drive around with anything in their car, no back seats, no passenger seat, no spare tire, no door panels, no power windows/locks, no AC systems, etc.
Until you prove to me that the average performance enthusiast cares THAT MUCH about weight reduction, dont even talk to me about a couple pound difference

 

I never stated people here don't know about weight reduction although I don't believe many of them fully understand it's benefits. I also know from experience that all tuner markets underestimate the importance of it.

If the choice was 1/3 pound or 6 HP, I would choose the HP but you example is a poor one. Do you really believe there is 6HP to be gained from running a different IC pump? I hope not.

Furthermore, having tested intercooler systems on supercharger dyno's, I can assure you that a 15 deg drop in IAT is not possible no matter how fast you flow the fluid.

 

they were made up numbers. my point is the gains will more than likely justify the losses if the pump were to flow what it claims to flow. Whether or not it does so is a completely different issue, so im not gonna bother arguing that point.
FYI, i was kinda frustrated when i made that last post, so i kind of exploded on you.. sorry for that. My points are still valid, but i was kind of a dick there...lol

 

I'll give you that. I agree with you in concept. We need to test the Meziere for flow to find out. If it was 20GPM vs. OEM of 6, I think the 3#'s would be worth it. I think that's what you were saying. I just don't think it is 20 and I happen to like the OEM pump a lot

Results are in and don't look good for Meziere. In free flow it took 14 volts to get it to 8GPM.

Inspecting the pumps, the Meziere uses a large motor spinning a billet impeller in a billet housing. The impeller has large straight fins and the technology I would date about 30 years. Think of it as a large paddle boat. The Bosch impeller is very, very small but highly advanced, much better suited for flowing into a head.

The closest thing I could find to what the Meziere looks like:

Just imagine it with straight fins and no special shape though.

The Bosch is a different style completely. I was shocked when I saw how small it was. Serious technology to make something so small perform so well. Proabaly requiring computer simulations and so on.

 

you should make your own pump then. I really dont know how difficult that would be, but i would think maybe you could do something along the lines of the meziere motor paired with the bosch impeller in a custom housing to hold it all. Or better yet, make your own parts altogether if you could make a pump that actually flows +15gpm and have it priced around the same as the meziere, i think you would have a lot of buyers (us, lightnings, cobras, etc.)

 

what did the bosch flow at again?

 

1. We can't. We do not have the facilities to manufacture pumps.
2. You cannot flow 15GPM in 3/4" line without pressure which requires a different type of pump. This would not be practical.
3. 15GPM isn't needed. Over 4GPM and the gains start getting small.
4. I think the factory pump is amazing. Reliable, light, efficient

http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_...les1.php?id=62

 

zoomer....my ic pump works only intermittently.....on it's way out after about 50K. you mentioned that you can fix them.....mind PM'ing me and telling me how???

 

Digging up an old thread. Well, my 2nd stock bosch has taken a ****. This will be the 3rd pump installed on the car with 90k on the clock. I'm getting tired of replacing the bosch, and am looking at the Meziere pump. I know so many lsj people to have the bosch pumps fail, tons of cobra guys as well. All the cobra guys I talked to that have upgraded have used the Meziere. Not one of them has had one single problem running them for many years. To the OP, did you ever get your laminova issue sorted out, and did you do some more logging with the warmer temps now?

 

i would rather have a pump that didnt flow as much but last a long time then one that flowed alot but broke every other month

 

havent done any logging (no hpt) but it seems to be working well. a 1st and 2nd gear pull iat2 doesnt move more than a couple degrees, 3rd gear it will slowly creap up, but nowere near as quick as it did with the stock pump/endplate.

 

i love this pump it works great, iv been running mine for about a year now, only thing you really need to do is fab up a bracket. mine's in the stock pump location, i just had to clock (turn) the bottom of the pump so it would work horizontal.

the flow rate is just shy of 4 times that of the stock pump. my stock pump is 317gph gallons per hour/5.2gallons per min free flow rate and my merziere pump was 1200gph gallons per hour/20gallons per min free flow rate, iat2 stay lower now as well. so in my opinion its a better pump and the flow rate is better, now i dont know if you would really benifit from using this pump on a stock aftercooler with stock single endplate

 

Perhaps you didn't read the thread. You're incorrect on all accounts.

 

no not really. ive been threw 3 new stock pumps do to the pumps burning out, i had no blockage of any kind or electrical problems of any kind either, they were all under warranty(thank god cause their not cheap) at the time the last one was not they all lasted just over a year, maybe its was just my crapy luck, it was time for me to go a different route, the meizeres pump has been worrking better for me from what i have watched with my hp tuners. thats all that matters to me. this pump has been on my car close to 2 years almost, i double checked the bill of sales time travels i thought it was only a year, it was on my stock motor for a year and on my built motor for 9 1/2 months, still running strong plus i know a meizeres tech so i have a lifetime warranty, how could i pass it up...

 

Proof?

 

perhaps you havent been reading threads here. Many posters here think your responses and your attitude sucks the big one. In fact, some of your responses are incorrect. It doesnt matter which ones, and in terms of aftercooling, I would not presume to tell you anything. One thing is for sure, up here in Canada we were developing aftercooling solutions working with GM engineers BEFORE Cobalt was on retail sale at dealers in America. Thats a simple statement with proof in the public domain, you cannot dispute. But then who cares. My 40 years of experience may be better than your mistakes

 

Whether you like my responses or not, they are factually correct and so is the information in this thread.

I'm not sure where you're going with your 40 years of experience comment or how it appies to something you haven't tested and i have. I tested what we're talking about, ZZP is the only one to do so and I posted up the information for free.

And what would working with GM on intercooling have to do with this thread. The thread is about how the GM product is inferior to the Mezeire and you're stating that you worked with GM? What are you saying? That you worked on inferior stuff and you guys released it anyway? Are you saying that since you worked on deloping something you know it's not good? Seems to be a post supporting me more than the bash you intended.

 

I remember seeing John say the bosch pump works fine... I have no problem with it either, it works great, when it works at all that is. I just have a problem with the longevity factor. I know 1st hand in real life experience as an lsj daily driver owner that the bosch has not been a durable part for me. I also know 1st hand as a user/tester of Meziere pumps that they are durable in my experience. That is the only reason I asked for hard facts proving otherwise, which I have not seen, and I do not believe to exist, until I see them myself, it's just talk.

 

agreed. Zoomers post is up to zoomer's usual standard. Meh. Sharkey is having a good experience with Meziere. I have no problems with Bosch and the single pass we made for my car in 2004. Meh.