weekend fun
Senior Member
Joined: 06-28-06
Posts: 12,577
Likes: 2
From: Canada
hotter flame vs colder intake.
meth itself burns rather warm anyways. we know this. zoomer was actually right on the 50/50 mix part.
in a nutshell. octane. i wasn't going for cooling, i was going for power. water will not produce power in this type of engine. straight methonal will produce way more power than 50/50 anyday of the week. we know this. so why not run straight meth? flash point of 185 degree's. adding water raises the temperature. invisible fire during the day is bad.
im sure there is more to it than that. im just no where near awake enough to think about it right now
meth itself burns rather warm anyways. we know this. zoomer was actually right on the 50/50 mix part.
in a nutshell. octane. i wasn't going for cooling, i was going for power. water will not produce power in this type of engine. straight methonal will produce way more power than 50/50 anyday of the week. we know this. so why not run straight meth? flash point of 185 degree's. adding water raises the temperature. invisible fire during the day is bad.
im sure there is more to it than that. im just no where near awake enough to think about it right now
yup i agree on straight meth, bad idea....
and i can understand upping your meth content for octane,
which will allow you greater timing....
but what if you dont need more timing?
If Im already at 25* from toe in to redline with 50/50,
and the specific energy of methanol is less than half that of gasoline
what benefit is there to upping my methanol content?
Senior Member
Joined: 06-28-06
Posts: 12,577
Likes: 2
From: Canada
gasoline has a specific energy of about 43mj/kg,
meth is only about 20mj/kg
so the math says adding meth, and pulling gas, will make less power.
if you need more timing, i completely understand adding more meth.
I imagine with areas cams it completely changes the beast...
but if your already at peak timing, im having trouble seeing the reasoning for upping the concentration?
basically im asking, why would I go to 75/25 myself?
meth is only about 20mj/kg
so the math says adding meth, and pulling gas, will make less power.
if you need more timing, i completely understand adding more meth.
I imagine with areas cams it completely changes the beast...
but if your already at peak timing, im having trouble seeing the reasoning for upping the concentration?
basically im asking, why would I go to 75/25 myself?
Senior Member
Joined: 10-06-05
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 2
From: Seneca, South Carolina
gasoline has a specific energy of about 43mj/kg,
meth is only about 20mj/kg
so the math says adding meth, and pulling gas, will make less power.
if you need more timing, i completely understand adding more meth.
but if your already at peak timing, im having trouble seeing the reasoning for upping the concentration?
meth is only about 20mj/kg
so the math says adding meth, and pulling gas, will make less power.
if you need more timing, i completely understand adding more meth.
but if your already at peak timing, im having trouble seeing the reasoning for upping the concentration?
I dunno? You tell me why?
Senior Member
Joined: 04-03-06
Posts: 7,570
Likes: 0
From: Mesa, AZ
Nitromethane has only 1/4 the potential power of gasoline, however it only takes 1/8 as much air to effectively burn the same amount of fuel. Therefore with the same amount of air with both gas and nitro, nitro will produce FOUR TIMES the amount of power gas will. Hence why blown nitro motors make 8000 hp, a comparative gasoline motor would only be making 2000 hp. The stoichiometric air fuel ratio of nitro is 1.7:1, so it burns A **** LOAD of fuel. Methanol is the same way, stoichiometric afr of methanol is 8:1, more fuel burned = more power.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-28-06
Posts: 12,577
Likes: 2
From: Canada
Nitromethane has only 1/4 the potential power of gasoline, however it only takes 1/8 as much air to effectively burn the same amount of fuel. Therefore with the same amount of air with both gas and nitro, nitro will produce FOUR TIMES the amount of power gas will. Hence why blown nitro motors make 8000 hp, a comparative gasoline motor would only be making 2000 hp. The stoichiometric air fuel ratio of nitro is 1.7:1, so it burns A **** LOAD of fuel. Methanol is the same way, stoichiometric afr of methanol is 8:1, more fuel burned = more power.
but lets do a little math
14.7/8 = 1.8375
Gasoline needs 1.8375 times more air to combust.
43/20 = 2.15
gasoline generates 2.15 times more energy per unit than methanol...
the numbers are certainly alot closer with that info than i had thought....
but gasoline with enough meth to reach peak timing should still make more power.
than gasoline with a higher concentration of meth than required for peak timing?
Im kinda just winging it here....but does that make sense?
Senior Member
Joined: 04-03-06
Posts: 7,570
Likes: 0
From: Mesa, AZ
Basically what I was saying is, just run nitro! 
Your car will make several thousand hp before literally exploding. Seriously though, it would take like 20, 160 lbs/hr injectors to provide enough fuel. Hell top fuel motors have a total of 42 injectors!!! 10 in the injector cap, 16 in the intake manifold, and 16 in the head itsself! Thats a **** load of fuel, at WOT they consume fuel at a rate of 1 gallon per SECOND!!! With methanol, the 1400 hp ecotecs use 12, 160 lbs/hr injectors.
Your car will make several thousand hp before literally exploding. Seriously though, it would take like 20, 160 lbs/hr injectors to provide enough fuel. Hell top fuel motors have a total of 42 injectors!!! 10 in the injector cap, 16 in the intake manifold, and 16 in the head itsself! Thats a **** load of fuel, at WOT they consume fuel at a rate of 1 gallon per SECOND!!! With methanol, the 1400 hp ecotecs use 12, 160 lbs/hr injectors.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-18-05
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 0
From: Canada eh!
Senior Member
Joined: 04-29-06
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 0
From: Mulberry, Florida
Senior Member
Joined: 08-13-05
Posts: 5,733
Likes: 1
From: the glove
Senior Member
Joined: 08-13-05
Posts: 5,733
Likes: 1
From: the glove
you has cam's bitch!
i sent you the flow numbers with stock cam VS AM cam, you know the difference.
douchnozzle.
i will forever and always have him beet.
Turbo>Blower
p.s.-sean you gonna come out to woodward soon?
I need some one intelligent to cruse around with.
i sent you the flow numbers with stock cam VS AM cam, you know the difference.
douchnozzle.
Turbo>Blower
p.s.-sean you gonna come out to woodward soon?
I need some one intelligent to cruse around with.
Last edited by 06black; Jul 7, 2008 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Senior Member
Joined: 08-13-05
Posts: 5,733
Likes: 1
From: the glove
hopefully so just working on the last few things before i strap it down and give it hell. You still have my number right?