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Why dont ecotecs perform better with cams

2.0L LSJ Performance Tech 205hp Supercharged SS tuner version. 200 lb-ft of torque.

Why dont ecotecs perform better with cams

Old 01-16-2015, 09:21 PM
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This thread makes me ask what makes the stock cam so good? Do you think engineering for milage and efficiency just so happens to make for good power?
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Stumpalump View Post
This thread makes me ask what makes the stock cam so good? Do you think engineering for milage and efficiency just so happens to make for good power?
I don't think the stock LSJ cam is hardly considered "good". It works the way it was intended for an oem application. Fuel economy, idle, emissions, and power, all things considered it balances nicey. From a purely power gain perspective, any bigger cam profiled properly for a supercharger will be superior, the issues come into play with the valvetrain like the original post talks about where you run into diminishing returns from those limitations. Im sure debate will rage over solid lash adjuster performance as well. Japeatr would be in a good position to clarify on that since he is working with them now.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
Curious question but, I have always been under the assumption that our hydraulic lash adjusters behave in a similar fashion to honda lost motion adjusters on vtec engines. Honda upgraded that design years ago to go from a oil fed piston setup to a spring assembly as shown in the picture below, I wonder if something similar could be adapted to maintain zero lash.


keeping zero lash is not the problem keeping the lash adjuster from colapsing is even when it colapses it still maintains zero lash just lift and duration is lost


Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
All ecotecs run zero lash you moron lol
lmfao

Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
I don't think the stock LSJ cam is hardly considered "good". It works the way it was intended for an oem application. Fuel economy, idle, emissions, and power, all things considered it balances nicey. From a purely power gain perspective, any bigger cam profiled properly for a supercharger will be superior, the issues come into play with the valvetrain like the original post talks about where you run into diminishing returns from those limitations. Im sure debate will rage over solid lash adjuster performance as well. Japeatr would be in a good position to clarify on that since he is working with them now.
japs not working with them yet i am i have blanks out to get ground for solid lash adjusters you cant run solids on a hydraulic cam there is no slow fown ramp for valve closing

the stock cams are dam good they give a well rounded performance window but there are improvements to be made
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
lmfao



japs not working with them yet i am i have blanks out to get ground for solid lash adjusters you cant run solids on a hydraulic cam there is no slow fown ramp for valve closing
What exactly is involved in the conversion process for the solid lash adjusters? If you cant run the same cam, I would imagine the follower/rocker needs to change as well.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
keeping zero lash is not the problem keeping the lash adjuster from colapsing is even when it colapses it still maintains zero lash just lift and duration is lost
Wouldnt the lash adjuster bottoming out or collapsing cause it to be unable to pump up (fast enough) once the lobe of the cam is off the follower again, thus resulting in a nice valve tick?
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
What exactly is involved in the conversion process for the solid lash adjusters? If you cant run the same cam, I would imagine the follower/rocker needs to change as well.
cam change and solid lash adjusters the stock follower will work with the bates stuff

Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
Wouldnt the lash adjuster bottoming out or collapsing cause it to be unable to pump up once the lobe of the cam is off the follower again, thus resulting in a nice valve tick?
i have yet to have mine do that they seem to recover rather fast by allowing the valve to close
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:14 PM
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Reading all this, but doubting that our lash adjusters work as described... Isn't there a small valve inside the hydro adjusters that trap the oil inside, making it solid as liquid is pretty incompressible...
The oilpressure is needed to extend the adjuster in the unloaded cam phase untill it reaches zero lash to the base circle.

Can see this one failing if the internal valve is not closing well (collapsing lifter), or there is some air in the oil (areated oil...)
Hydro cams have quicker ramp-up than solid cams, just to close this valve shut, right?
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedytec View Post
Reading all this, but doubting that our lash adjusters work as described... Isn't there a small valve inside the hydro adjusters that trap the oil inside, making it solid as liquid is pretty incompressible...
The oilpressure is needed to extend the adjuster in the unloaded cam phase untill it reaches zero lash to the base circle.

Can see this one failing if the internal valve is not closing well (collapsing lifter), or there is some air in the oil (areated oil...)
Hydro cams have quicker ramp-up than solid cams, just to close this valve shut, right?
I took one apart and only found this...

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Old 01-19-2015, 09:02 PM
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lol need help?

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Old 01-19-2015, 09:26 PM
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thre really isent that much oil in the lash adjuster and when the exh lash adjuster is trying to suppport the valve being shoved through spring pressure and post combustion pressure it blows through its travel by blleding off oil pressure and internal spring pressure also collapsing



thanks man photobucket is being a **** sucker tonight
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
lol need help?

I have always meant to ask you what you use for uploading photos, because you are the only member on this site whos photos I can never see.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:31 AM
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^hostthenpost is the image hosting site he uses.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:32 AM
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just so you and anyone else can see, here is spawnes pictures of a dissassembled last adjuster

Name:  dd7725625ccf579d3abefb031368a727_zps6493a175.jpg
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:47 AM
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i use photobucket but its been a ********** lately so i coppied and pasted spawne32 link
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by riceburner View Post
just so you and anyone else can see, here is spawnes pictures of a dissassembled last adjuster

thank u.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Staged07SS View Post
I have always meant to ask you what you use for uploading photos, because you are the only member on this site whos photos I can never see.
is the site blocked or something? i never have any issues viewing them when i posted them, and ive never gotten any complaints about the site either
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
is the site blocked or something? i never have any issues viewing them when i posted them, and ive never gotten any complaints about the site either
Prob on my work computer, but your pictures are the only ones I ever had an issue with.

I found it out, and always meant to ask u.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Staged07SS View Post
Prob on my work computer, but your pictures are the only ones I ever had an issue with.

I found it out, and always meant to ask u.
probably because its my own image hosting site lol photobucket and the other well known sites are probably allowed to pass through your company firewall.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:19 AM
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Our stock lash adjusters bleed down easily. You can do I with a pair of channel locks and moderate pressure.
There is clearance between the body and piston, obviously. Push it hard enough and oil will flow through.
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
Our stock lash adjusters bleed down easily. You can do I with a pair of channel locks and moderate pressure.
There is clearance between the body and piston, obviously. Push it hard enough and oil will flow through.
Is that the old design or the new design, because I needed a vice to bleed down the one I disassembled.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:03 PM
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i think they all work the same they just change the end up or maybe the spring in the bottom but you also have to look at they restrict the volume and pressure going to the lash adjusters which is part of the problem and how much oil the lash adjuster holds is another. if you open up the restrictor in the head you pull oil awy from the crank
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:14 PM
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Quite a few of the 4G63 guys open up the orifice on the restrictor to the head when running more aggressive cams. How much I could not tell you, as I have never really looked into it or thought much about it.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:18 PM
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they also have a bigger lash adjuster then we do and their engines may oil in a differently then ours also
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Staged07SS View Post
I have always meant to ask you what you use for uploading photos, because you are the only member on this site whos photos I can never see.
That's funny, cuz I'm at work, and his are the only ones I can consistently see. I can't normally see anybody elses.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Olybaltss View Post
That's funny, cuz I'm at work, and his are the only ones I can consistently see. I can't normally see anybody elses.
lol
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