07 Tuners..... :)
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From: Sanger Texas
that proves my point you were saying here that each part will see 12-15 increase... you are getting mixed up that is actually a total gain for both not each one. so shananagans i say, it is what i said earlier you will need supporting mods to get that total 40 wbhp you are looking for
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From: Vancouver, WA
"there is no way chevy would put out a car that would be that restrictive."
Maybe I'd be better off keeping my mouth shut instead of correcting you. I'm not addressing the 2.4 mani part of this, but your statement is incorrect. Most car manufacturers do this to some extent depending on things.
in the old V8 days....family luxury had larger engines and sport typically had smaller better tuned engines. When, in all reality, the larger engines were capable of putting out more. So, to make the case that Chevy or any other car manufacturer does not engage in this to some extent is not valid.
Just looking at the ecotec series of engines it's obvious that the company put things in place to further restrict.
If they didn't restrict engines there would be no room for aftermarket. Aftermarket has always been about reaching the true potential, thereby removing the restrictions put in place by the manufacturers.
Maybe I'd be better off keeping my mouth shut instead of correcting you. I'm not addressing the 2.4 mani part of this, but your statement is incorrect. Most car manufacturers do this to some extent depending on things.
in the old V8 days....family luxury had larger engines and sport typically had smaller better tuned engines. When, in all reality, the larger engines were capable of putting out more. So, to make the case that Chevy or any other car manufacturer does not engage in this to some extent is not valid.
Just looking at the ecotec series of engines it's obvious that the company put things in place to further restrict.
If they didn't restrict engines there would be no room for aftermarket. Aftermarket has always been about reaching the true potential, thereby removing the restrictions put in place by the manufacturers.
that proves my point you were saying here that each part will see 12-15 increase... you are getting mixed up that is actually a total gain for both not each one. so shananagans i say, it is what i said earlier you will need supporting mods to get that total 40 wbhp you are looking for
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From: Fayett-Evil NC
since the 50's, car manufactures have been putting on more restrictive items on engines to avoid certain taxes, more so in the late 70's through today...the old hemi was stated it was at 425 hp stock but when put on an engine dyno it pushed close to 800 all engine stock....so they do it on purpose also based on gov't restrictions and newer emissions laws based on the class of the car...however those are only imposed on manufacturers of automobiles, not aftermarket companies, so with that being said, any car has the ability to go further in hp/tq numbers with the right parts....
and we will have numbers for the 2.4 mani on the stock 07 2.2 without exhaust, or CAI...just a K&N air filter and manifold...coming shortly...
and we will have numbers for the 2.4 mani on the stock 07 2.2 without exhaust, or CAI...just a K&N air filter and manifold...coming shortly...
the 05-06 balt use the same tuning system, i belivie this tuning would be for 07-08 since there are same engine components.
i think the difference from the 05-06 to 07-08 was the change in the coils(i think thats what they are)
I may be wrong
i think the difference from the 05-06 to 07-08 was the change in the coils(i think thats what they are)
I may be wrong
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From: Fayett-Evil NC
they also added a Cam Position Sensor with a slight retard in timing
and the 05/06 uses a 16bit ECU where the 07+ use the 32bit ECU which allows everything to load faster and have more complex fuel curves, etc.
they also use electric power steering instead of the pump that was connected to the cam shaft
so with that and a better factory tune, they managed to get a 3 hp increase over previous years (148hp as opposed to 145hp that was in previous years)
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From: Sanger Texas
i'm telling you 30 hp isn't going to happen, maybe on engine dyno but not wheel and especially without a tune. its true they put restrictions, but not for the after market, why would any manufacturer want to take away from their own possible income. after market is an improvement because people look for improvement not necessarily saying the manufacturer wasn't trying to. in this case why would chevy want to put out a car that is cheaper and performs better than the sport version? it is the same reason why nissan did away with the altima se-r because it had the close if not the same power the 350z did but at almost half the price, so which would you buy, cheaper right? you also have to think if its too restrictive then it causes emissions issues like faceless said. thus gov. gets mad enforces different laws and regulations. but as for 30 hp from two parts, doubtful. those numbers are supporting mods too, because without certain parts being installed it could actually cause a drop in hp. without a tune or proper mapping then ecm has idea its getting more air then necessary. I'm telling you when its dynoed you will see that its not going to be as big of a gain as you think. and when it comes down to moddifying you can't just add up the estimated hp of each part to get what your car's "hp" will be. this isn't like a video game, there are lots of variants that change what kind of gains, if any, you will see. even so with all that said just adding a bigger tb and manifold won't increase hp 15 to 20 without valve and valve train work, because in order for you to experience full benefits you will have to allow more time for that air to get in and out of the motor, thus a need for more exhaust.
less restriction does mean longer engine. heres how i look at it. right now, i floor my car cause i want it to rev and get some good speed. the tune, and other mods, help the airflow and lessen up govener. so instead of flooring the pedal pasted the firewall, we can push the pedal maybe half way or 3/4 and get that power. with more airflow and better engine management, crusing should be easier and softer.
heres a lil math i put together, this is how i look on the hp gain just for bolt ons and tune.
CAI - 5 Headers- maybe 5 (since ours are pretty big enough. dont know which ones to get that would be better) Downpipe - 5 (zzp or ss/sc hi flow cat probably make 1-2hp diff) cat-back - 5-7 (differs from 2.25 like pacesetter to magnaflow or other brands that might be 2.5) so far thats 20 hp. 2.4 Intake mani - 10
Now with these mods, 30 hp maybe. the 06 dynos with 2.4 intake mani put 10hp more on it. so be about 40hp gain.
i could be wrong on the hp gains for those mods so dont flame me, but those are some ruff estimates. throw some NOS in there. /whack
after these mods, probably upgrade internals if you go NOS. with nos, and these, you will probably push 50-60 total?? 180-190 hp is doable. our cars have alot of room to gain hp.
heres a lil math i put together, this is how i look on the hp gain just for bolt ons and tune.
CAI - 5 Headers- maybe 5 (since ours are pretty big enough. dont know which ones to get that would be better) Downpipe - 5 (zzp or ss/sc hi flow cat probably make 1-2hp diff) cat-back - 5-7 (differs from 2.25 like pacesetter to magnaflow or other brands that might be 2.5) so far thats 20 hp. 2.4 Intake mani - 10
Now with these mods, 30 hp maybe. the 06 dynos with 2.4 intake mani put 10hp more on it. so be about 40hp gain.
i could be wrong on the hp gains for those mods so dont flame me, but those are some ruff estimates. throw some NOS in there. /whack
after these mods, probably upgrade internals if you go NOS. with nos, and these, you will probably push 50-60 total?? 180-190 hp is doable. our cars have alot of room to gain hp.
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From: Fayett-Evil NC
i'm telling you 30 hp isn't going to happen, maybe on engine dyno but not wheel and especially without a tune. its true they put restrictions, but not for the after market, why would any manufacturer want to take away from their own possible income. after market is an improvement because people look for improvement not necessarily saying the manufacturer wasn't trying to. in this case why would chevy want to put out a car that is cheaper and performs better than the sport version? it is the same reason why nissan did away with the altima se-r because it had the close if not the same power the 350z did but at almost half the price, so which would you buy, cheaper right? you also have to think if its too restrictive then it causes emissions issues like faceless said. thus gov. gets mad enforces different laws and regulations. but as for 30 hp from two parts, doubtful. those numbers are supporting mods too, because without certain parts being installed it could actually cause a drop in hp. without a tune or proper mapping then ecm has idea its getting more air then necessary. I'm telling you when its dynoed you will see that its not going to be as big of a gain as you think. and when it comes down to moddifying you can't just add up the estimated hp of each part to get what your car's "hp" will be. this isn't like a video game, there are lots of variants that change what kind of gains, if any, you will see. even so with all that said just adding a bigger tb and manifold won't increase hp 15 to 20 without valve and valve train work, because in order for you to experience full benefits you will have to allow more time for that air to get in and out of the motor, thus a need for more exhaust.
but yeah...car makers make the cars restrictive like they do because of gov't sanctions, emissions laws, etc. They are required to have a certain percentage of models that they produce to have a certain avg. mpg fuel economy....thus adding the 2.2 motor to practically every GM car. But then again, GM did release the build books for people that do want to build up their cars for the track...and releasing "aftermarket" parts such as supercharger kits, exhausts, cold air intakes, etc. this includes the stage packs for the SS/SC..but that was to get a bit more money for reinvestment into the company for better cars..i mean hell they are developing hybrids and electric vehicles like the Chevy Volt that is still in concept phase....technology and trends tend to denote what car makers will do next. In an ever increasing society concerned with gas mileage, 90% of the nation doesn't really car about power so power comes with a hefty price tag along with the infamous "gas guzzler tax" imposed on the high end V8 and HO V6 cars out there...so like i was saying...the "performance parts and kits" just add to the profit and reinvestment margin for innovation and taxes that the gov't imposes on car makers....
but i hope we get about 15-20 gain from the 2.4 manifold...if we can...i will start putting together 2.4 kits for the 2007 chevy cobalts for cheaper than CED offers, and if business willing i will be a liaison offering the tune to compliment the kit at an additional price...so i will keep everybody informed about my ventures....
less restriction does mean longer engine. heres how i look at it. right now, i floor my car cause i want it to rev and get some good speed. the tune, and other mods, help the airflow and lessen up govener. so instead of flooring the pedal pasted the firewall, we can push the pedal maybe half way or 3/4 and get that power. with more airflow and better engine management, crusing should be easier and softer.
heres a lil math i put together, this is how i look on the hp gain just for bolt ons and tune.
CAI - 5 Headers- maybe 5 (since ours are pretty big enough. dont know which ones to get that would be better) Downpipe - 5 (zzp or ss/sc hi flow cat probably make 1-2hp diff) cat-back - 5-7 (differs from 2.25 like pacesetter to magnaflow or other brands that might be 2.5) so far thats 20 hp. 2.4 Intake mani - 10
Now with these mods, 30 hp maybe. the 06 dynos with 2.4 intake mani put 10hp more on it. so be about 40hp gain.
i could be wrong on the hp gains for those mods so dont flame me, but those are some ruff estimates. throw some NOS in there. /whack
after these mods, probably upgrade internals if you go NOS. with nos, and these, you will probably push 50-60 total?? 180-190 hp is doable. our cars have alot of room to gain hp.
heres a lil math i put together, this is how i look on the hp gain just for bolt ons and tune.
CAI - 5 Headers- maybe 5 (since ours are pretty big enough. dont know which ones to get that would be better) Downpipe - 5 (zzp or ss/sc hi flow cat probably make 1-2hp diff) cat-back - 5-7 (differs from 2.25 like pacesetter to magnaflow or other brands that might be 2.5) so far thats 20 hp. 2.4 Intake mani - 10
Now with these mods, 30 hp maybe. the 06 dynos with 2.4 intake mani put 10hp more on it. so be about 40hp gain.
i could be wrong on the hp gains for those mods so dont flame me, but those are some ruff estimates. throw some NOS in there. /whack
after these mods, probably upgrade internals if you go NOS. with nos, and these, you will probably push 50-60 total?? 180-190 hp is doable. our cars have alot of room to gain hp.
the hp gain that you are describing is a little misguided...it's actually what i would like to call "fuzzy math" or "fuzzy logic" meaning with those bolt ons, you would maybe get a 25-30hp gain...but i can see if the right things were added the 2.2 could get close to 170hp at the flywheel and maybe 155 at the wheels...but we will see very soon
i mean the math by mathematical rules is correct, but when it comes to engine hp, then you have to do other math and such...in theory that's what you gain...but it will most likely be less than what will be on there..
Last edited by FacelessKhaos; Jun 17, 2008 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Someone had to do it. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...t-W67C144.aspx
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From: Vancouver, WA
2.4 mani would probably BY ITSELF bring 142-145hp and 139ft/lbs. resulting in a 13hp increase(most of which is recognized 5500rpm and up), although only a max increase of 2ft/lbs with ever increasing difference 5400rpm and up resulting in being up 20lbs over stock at 6500rpm. acknowledge the midrange loss for now. i believe ranged losses in mid are between 5-9hp and 5-15ft/lbs. ignore the impending tune as well. i had to do some weighed out math to get these figures, and i based it off of my observations f of the dyno charts in the movie I so nicely provided the link to below. I weighed it all out in my head to come up with some estimates as to what the 2.4 mani BY ITSELF would do to a stock 2.2.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2...77000761d5.htm
NWAE showed untuned 144hp and 153ft/lbs with intake header downpipe high flow cat and exhaust. that's about 12hp and 19ft/lbs over stock without tune. tune on this config yielded 154hp 157ft/lbs(10hp and 4ft/lbs diff over untuned). gains were recognized with ranged gains of 5-10hp through the power band and 4-10ft/lb increase through the powerband.
So I come to the conclusion that the combination of the everything here with trifecta tune, i'd put peaks of around 162-165hp and 155-158ft/lbs. now the kicker comes with the entire curve. i predict that through the entire curve you will see 10-30hp and 10-25ft/lb diff over stock, with most at the low and high end, with power dropping off at 6900.
Just my personal predictions.
And I also predict that this setup will break N/A 2.2's into 14's. :-P Lemme drive your car after the mani NWAE. hehe I wouldn't try and take that chance from ya. how is it gonna feel to see that time slip Tom?
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2...77000761d5.htm
NWAE showed untuned 144hp and 153ft/lbs with intake header downpipe high flow cat and exhaust. that's about 12hp and 19ft/lbs over stock without tune. tune on this config yielded 154hp 157ft/lbs(10hp and 4ft/lbs diff over untuned). gains were recognized with ranged gains of 5-10hp through the power band and 4-10ft/lb increase through the powerband.
So I come to the conclusion that the combination of the everything here with trifecta tune, i'd put peaks of around 162-165hp and 155-158ft/lbs. now the kicker comes with the entire curve. i predict that through the entire curve you will see 10-30hp and 10-25ft/lb diff over stock, with most at the low and high end, with power dropping off at 6900.
Just my personal predictions.
And I also predict that this setup will break N/A 2.2's into 14's. :-P Lemme drive your car after the mani NWAE. hehe I wouldn't try and take that chance from ya. how is it gonna feel to see that time slip Tom?
Last edited by warrenb213; Jun 18, 2008 at 12:02 PM.
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From: Beaumont, TX
depending on how the information in this thread goes i will be trying to get into the 13s with my 2.2+ nitrous. i dougbt it will happen tho. but its worth a shot. i figured with a fully bolted 2.2 running spray and a tune it would be really close to breaking the 13.99 sec barrier probalbly with drag radials or some sort of traction mod. the only thing that has me doubting the 13 sec is the fact that not spraying off the line will hurt the time too greatly. idk, just my 2 cents but i hope i am wrong...
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From: Apache Junction, AZ
Whoa! I went to Trifecta's website and now I am jazzed.
My 07 is in need of this and this has to be the easiest mod I have ever seen.
It plugs in like a printer cable under the dash and you touch the screen on the supplied computer and it reprograms your car in 10 minutes time!
What I would really like is to be able to buy that mini-computer they ship to you with the programming and have 2 options: stock program and modified
If I ever have a warranty issue, I would have it reprogrammed back to stock just in case they try to blame the reprogram. I have a 100,000 mile warranty and would like to keep it this way, warrantied.
How much are those little computers? Any other info on them?
My 07 is in need of this and this has to be the easiest mod I have ever seen.
It plugs in like a printer cable under the dash and you touch the screen on the supplied computer and it reprograms your car in 10 minutes time!
What I would really like is to be able to buy that mini-computer they ship to you with the programming and have 2 options: stock program and modified
If I ever have a warranty issue, I would have it reprogrammed back to stock just in case they try to blame the reprogram. I have a 100,000 mile warranty and would like to keep it this way, warrantied.
How much are those little computers? Any other info on them?
I'm ordering mine tomorrow if vince emails me. pending on shipment of the GT tuner, maybe sometime at the end of next week i should have it uploaded.
but not sure, im going to be traveling about 900 miles that weekend. recommend to wait or worth a shot to see what MPG i get?
but not sure, im going to be traveling about 900 miles that weekend. recommend to wait or worth a shot to see what MPG i get?