My brother want's to mod his 2.2 ***** to the wall....but that ended as soon as I said there isn't many options tuning wise....then he asked me if the 2.4 ss engine would drop in using the same motor mounts. He also asked me if it would mate up to his 5 speed.....that's where you guys come in. Is that possible? I don't know much about the 2.2's.....How are the guys that are running the 1400 hp setups tuning their engines?

I told him to buy the alpine turbo kit and he said he wants a n/a 300 hp 4 banger.....I said it's almost impossible.....MAYBE to the crank....but not whp.

 

Just like any other 1000+ HP Vehicle...they run Full Standalones and don't care about items like air bags and other control features.

I swap like that isn't realistic honestly and the amount of money he'd spend to do this would gain him what? 25-30 BHP?

In order to have a 300 n/a hp vehicle, he for one would have to revv the **** out of it and need to run at a very high compression. 4 Cylinders don't draw in much air, so he'd have to utilize everything possible. Also, camshafts with alot of duration.

Either way, he'd need some efficient form of fuel/computer management.

 

Well, I think it would be worth it if I can convince him to turbo the 2.4. Then I can tune his car for him since I have hptuners. Then would it be worth it? I just need to know if the tranny's are the same (which I think they are) and if the 2.4 would just drop in the engine bay, which I don't see why it wouldn't....

Cmon guys, there has to be a way.....if not, he's going to buy a HONDUH!!!!!!! and build that up.....

 

I think they have the same bellhousing bolt pattern.

If you don't mind me asking, how old is your brother?

Honestly, there really isn't that much difference between the engines as far as characteristics goes to creating power. .2 liters of displacement isn't going to make or break him if he's trying to go n/a. There is many more parts to the equation if that's what he's going for.

Spending the money to find a 2.4 and electronics, possibly transmission if you can't use the 2.2's transmission, time to swap it in or even paying someone to do it if you or him don't know how to do it correctly, then on top of this, buying parts to try to achieve 300 HP...key word of try because you honestly don't know what combination will be the key to reach it.

That's the problem with N/A sometimes. There isn't a set key of parts to say "yes, this will get you x HP" sometimes. With F/I or atleast turbochargers, it's a bit more adjustable. First, you know first and foremost if the turbocharger is capable of flowing the right amount of airflow needed. Then you figure can your engine internals handle the stress (force). Even if you screw up on matching, you can always open the hood and change turbochargers. With a N/A setup, you'd have to open up the engine AGAIN.

It's more expensive and not really full proof. Also, running at a higher compression constantly, this would require for him to take more pre-cautions of octane, fuel enrichment and idle quality. Atleast F/I setups can run in vacuum pressure at idle and cruising speeds and then when needed, fuel enrichment is there.

Tell him to buy a honda. Atleast it'll be cheaper, he could find a lighter body to help achieve a better weight/power distribution, more aftermarket support. But...he'll have like 300 WHP and 200 lbs of torque lol Everything will be aimed upwards no matter which vehicle he had cause even on his 2.4, he'd have to rev the **** out of it to make some type of real power and camshafts to support it.

 

He's 24....why?

Well, for him to do a 2.4 swap and keep it n/a, it wouldn't be worth it. But since tuning is available to the 2.4, making the engine stronger, built for boost, and turbochargering it would dfeinately see some nice gains. Didn't the hahn kits on the solstiice's make like 250 to the wheels on a stock engine?

 

I was just asking to see where he might be financially...because this isn't something that's going to be cheap overall.

The point I'm making is that it really doesn't matter what platform engine you have. Him spending all this money on a swap, he could go standalone and have twice the capabilities over HP Tuners.

Even though they have "tuning", there are VERY limited engine parts available. 2.2s have more options.

But if all he's asking for is 300 HP, he could do that now if he really wanted to. I would also suggest that he think about going to a return fuel system setup.

 

Hey by the way, how did you have your sunfire tuned? Was it a standalone or piggy back? I remember you brought it to fudruckers in freehold I belive but I never saw it run. (meaning you geting on it, not actually running lol because it obviously ran)

 

At that time you saw me, I had the GM Supercharger Reflash but I had some type of computer/electrical issue cause my computer was making run in limp mode.

I never got to find out why...ran out of funds. I said **** it. Was tired of dumping money into a car especially since I have a son to look after.

 

In all honesty, don't bother. look what you gain. variable valves and .2 displacement. thats it. variable valves aren't that great of a deal if he just wants all out performance, go with a good set of cams and be done with it, thats one less thing to go wrong. Head work, I'm not sure if there are aftermarket heads out yet or not, would go a long ways. build the bottom end and raise the compression. With that being done he would save money on an engine swap, and have every bit as good of an engine.

If he wants to do a swap go to the 2.0. It costs less and is a lot better bang for the buck.

why not keep the 2.2? what will he gain with the 2.4? .2 of displacement and variable valves.

bore the cylinders .30 over and that should be close to that .2 not quite i'd guess but close enough.

variable valves? why have one more thing that can go wrong? just get a good set of cams and be done with it. fuel economy isn't an issue here is it?

do that and he would be money ahead and have a few extra ponies. build the low end and up the compression. get good aftermarket head and have it machined and flowed. do that, squease a little extra timming out of it and he would have a better engine than a 2.4.

what is there to gain? the bragging rights to say he did a motor swap? less money in his pocket? I'm not seeing a benefit here. If he wants to do a motor swap go with the 2.0. it costs less and is a better bang for the buck.

 

Here's the plan man...


Swap your LSJ into the 2.2, make it a sleeper beast.


Pick yourself up an LS1 and make it fit. Do whatever you have to do, convert to RWD, find a tranny that fits, just do it.

 

If your planning on talking him into a turbo why even bother with an engine swap from
2.2l to 2.4l?
THe turbo's for the 2.2l out now bump them up to around 230-250hp ALONE. This is without a supporting tune. Tell him "If you save it, the mods will come."
I think it would be easier and MUCH cheapr to just wait it out and you could easily get the 2.2 engine up to 300 hp with a tune and supporting mods, and you won't have that Honda fanboy issue of no torque.
THe tranny on the 2.2l and 2.4l is only rated to go so high on power. (aroundish 250 hp and whatever ft/lbs or torque) So you'll have to overaul that as well.

And the 2.0l Cobalts are already within spitting distance of 300hp, if you have to have your car NOW, maybe trade up.

 

Yeah, he's not touching the cobalt...BUT I think I changed his mind about a honda. I told him about what my friend wants to do with a cavalier z24. But, I told him he could pick up a beater cavalier for like 1 grand, and put in a 3.8 series 3 v6. He seemed very interested in that. I told him to gut it too since the car would just be used for the track.

P.S. to bluecobaltss06: sorry if I stole your idea on that one....I just don't want my brother going honda

 

That's gonna be some custom work involved in that one...

Everyone I see say they are going to do that swap...never hear from them again. Not saying he wouldn't do it but it's just one of those swaps that more people talk about than do.

 

Like most everything... I've got a whole list of stuff I'd like to do to my car. And I don't even plan to go crazy on it. get me going on my other car (87 gn) and I can rattle off a list a mile long of stuff I want to do to it, not that much of it will actually happen.

I would like to see a street driven rwd cobalt. maybe If I come across some money and decent priced car... no... ain't going to happen. I'd like to see it done though

 

Indeed.

 

Raven over on j-body . org makes the subframes for them. I sent him an email to see if he still makes them or can make one for me. He says the 3800 bolts up right to his subframe that he makes, he has a custom plug and play wiring harness, tuned pcm.

My brother and I are just brainstorming about how we can get a decently quick car built for under 10 g's. We wanna do the work ourselves. This cavalier project looks very promising

 

I wasn't aware he was doing that for other people. That's cool.

Good luck to your bro.

 

Well that's what I read in one of his posts....So I sent him an email....I'll tell you if he does or not when he responds...or if he responds

Thanks

 

You're welcome

 

keep cobalt

insert 125 shot
insert bolt ons
gut
drag radials

instant killer 2.2

 

You should tell your brother to buy a fiero and put a v8 in it. lol now that would be pretty fast.

 

would the 3800 your using be supercharged or n/a?

 

It would be the 3800 series 3 supercharged engine....i think it puts out 260 crank hp and 280 crank tq.....I told him after we had it running, first upgrade would be pulley, injectors, and tune

Raven got back to me, he still sells them. I just forwarded the info to my brother. It's up to him now if he wants to go ahead with it.

 

Interesting. Good luck.

By the way, I'm thinking about going to that Car Show event.

 

In all honesty....if you want a good project car for under $10,000...buy a 80's mustang.

They are cheap to mod, cheap to buy, easy to find parts for, and easy as hell to work on.


But the balt, the 1400whp dragsters you see on TV are actualy running the Ecotec racing block which is a 2.2L highly prepped block. the 2.2 has alot more goodies out (internal wise) than the 2.4L.