for a blown 2.4 u use the OEM lightweight model for the 2.2/2.5

 

So all in all would you say it's worth it to buy (I'd get the UD pulley) considering it's only like a 2 hp gain? Or should we keep our money? Also are there any possible downsides that can come with switching the stock pulley to mrz's pulley? Just trying to gather some info to see if it's worth putting on my car.

 

worht the gaine yes, and its nt just the hp gain, its the faster rev'n ull like the tach moves faster..thus bringing you to your powerband faster

 

Sounds good to me then.

 

Yes, the downside is that youre removing an essential design feature of the engine and shortening the engines longevity by an unknown amount.

 

Interesting that the same balancer is used on both the 2.2 and 2.4 -- yet they have different bores and strokes. Not so sure there is enough difference to say for sure there is reduced longevity. Time will tell.

 

So then it's not worth getting?

 

i think it may cause problem down the road as well. just caus ethese engines are diff but have the sam ebalancer doesnt mean that the balancer is useless. its there for a reason. its designed to absorb vibes, if its all aluminum now where are they gonna go.

 

Didn't imply the balancer was useless. Usually a balancer is "tuned" to a particular engine. Since the balancer is the same between the 2.2 and 2.4 it's possible it's not as critical -- seeing that these engines have the balance shafts too. If the engine created vibrations serious enough to cause damage the guys using them so far should be able to tell by the feel and sound.

 

If I had the money I would rock the underdrive with a underdrive alt pulley too.

 

Balance shafts and harmonic dampers dont fight the same things.

Balance shafts reduce the engines motion/vibrations that are induced by the long 180 degrees swing of the crank between power strokes. without the balalancers you actually feel the motions of the engine as the crank swings through its rotation because the power pulses are so far apart, straight 6 dont need balance shafts because there are more power pulses and less "swinging" movements, since there is a power stroke every 120degrees, properly designed V8s(and stright 8s) are very smooth too since theyve got only 90 degrees between power pulses.

The harmonic damper(forget "balancer" as it confuses the issue) isnt working to reduce the motion of the engine that you can feel between power pulses. Its job is to absorb the vibrations created IN the crankshaft by the power pulses force on the crank and then the cranks natural rebound as the force is reduced. Think of it like a swimmer on a diving board......
The swimmer is the power pulse, as he comes down onto the board(crank) he flexes it downward as he is coming down, after the board(crank_ absorbs all of his energy he goes away and the board/crank springs back up, and then ideally at the peak of the boards upward travel the swimmer lands on the board and pushes it back down starting the process over again. Its graceful, looks good, and the board and the swimmer work together to get the job done efficiently without harming the board or the swimmer. This because the board and the swimmer are working at the same frequency.
Now iamgine what would happen if the diver came down much faster than the board could react and swing up, the swimmer and the board would collide violently, with the swimmer putting all of his force into a board that still has lots of its own energy travelling the oppsite way, this isnt good for the board, its a massive stress, and its not good for the swimmer because his energy is now fighting this upward motion and vibration in the board instead of most of his energy just pushing the board down. It also transmits all these big stresses and vibrations to the board platform, the board pivots and the ground.

Heres the key.....since the board(crank), the mounts(bearings) and ground(pulley) are all connected/touching, they all experience this force, and since the ground(pulley) cant rtransfer this energy to anything, the vibrations/stresses just get worse if the conditions stay the same. BUT if the board(crank) is mnounted to the ground with a vibration absorbing material(a damper) much of this stress can be absorbed by the damper.......

Theres a reason that you will fing that probably 99% of all endurance engines(and even many drag engines) have a harmonic damper. Its because its needed. And engine life IS reduced without it

 

That's the best thing about CSS.net...we get lessons on different parts of the engine. When I take my Cobalt swimming I'll make sure it's grounded to the diving board before I let it go for a dip

Interesting too that the same Toyota engines came either with a balancer (as in hydraulic damper) or a solid steel pulley. I guess the life of the solid steel balancer-equipped versions were shortened by .0000023456788 seconds cause the 2 '93 versions I've worked on are still running.

Intake and exhaust reduce the life of engines too....More air, more power, more wear.

 

thousand miles now.....still no problems

 

I have the balance shaft delet kit from LZM..So far all is good.you could tell a big differance with them in..Are the vibrations bad..No,I also have a soild lower motor mount and RKSport upper mount and all urathan bushings..Soon as you are above 1500 RPM you cant feel any vibes it runs very smooth..Also i am running stock flywhell and balancer..I did this just because Clayten from LZM told me would be better on a daily driver..Worst damage that will happen is you are going to need to change rod berings sooner..But if you are going to start modding a motor of any kind get ready for repairs to come sooner than later..I think it is good for the pully if it is netting a 3hp gain..I mean at the end of the day it all adds up..

 

ummm...riiiight...so anyway still kicking, no noticeable vibs, aside from those cause by solid mounts

 

I have never heard of anyone saying balance shaft delete or neutral shafts shorten engine life in ANY way, they are simply there to make the engine FEEL smoother..... They dont actually absorb or dissipate vibrations or stress in any way.

Clayton told you a balance shaft delete was "better" for a daily driver? Better in what way? I also doubt he told you that.

 

i heard the opposite actually...not directly from him but on Ecotec Forums. I heard that he didn't/doesn't advertise the sale of his balance shaft delete kit because he could not verify that the motor would be reliable for any period of time since all setups that had the kit were race motors.

 

Race engines are going to have completely balanced rotating assemblies, therefore the need for balance shafts and a vibration damper isn't there...

 

No if you read..I stated he told me to leave the stock fly wheel and pulley...But I dont really care if I need to put a new motor in..They are cheap..So far I have 30 thousand Km on this one and all is good with it..

 

True, I got one for $50 and it ran well when it came out of the ion.

 

Curious how all is running a year and a half later? I want to pick this up, but am doing some checking before buying as I got burned on my Weapon-R intake. This would go along with the intake, #33 injectors and a Trifecta tune.