Alcohol will corrode any vehicle that isn't made for it. I just watched an episode of Top Gear where they were using the bio-diesel they farmed for an endurance race. They kept blowing seals in the beginning b/c their fuel had too much methanol for the motor!

I know they are stupid sometimes, like hating the Z06 b/c it isn't "streetable", but that sounded legit.

Also the only motors I've heard that can get the power out that ethanol has to offer are built from the ground up. Flexfuel motors aren't that.

 

ROFLOL. I'm not going to pick apart your scenario. But if you think I would let that **** ride..you have no idea who I am. Manager, Managers Manager, and if that didn't solve it I'd be on the phone to GM. You think I give up and bend over like you? Hell no. I get my way. You think I paid MSRP for my car? LOL. Your ass must hurt at night..seriously. I don't know how half of you can sit down.

E85 fuel FAQ

Happy reading!

 

Next time you look in the mirror, realize you're looking at a brainwashed lemming.

 

Not so much brainwashed as not wanting to engineer a top fuel dragster. This stuff looks more promising than ethanol.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/green-cr...he-future.html Algae grows a hell of a lot faster than corn or rice.

Whats best is that it can be used w/o modifying the car from its regular gas setup. And assuming planes need higher octane than cars(since I don't know if this was a prop plane or not that was flew in the article), then this stuff is good for racing fuel. Time will tell. But I really don't think ethanol has a large future once penny pinchers start comparing milage notes b/t their E85 and their conventional gas.

 

You apparently do bend right over and take it in the ass, cause you are all worked up over absolutely nothing. I only posted that for a laugh silver.

 

That article is definately interesting. Yet, the amount of e85 that can be produced from algae is supposidely astronomical in comparison, so I guess it's all going to depend on what works better in different climates.

However, Ethanol is NOT a fundamentally inferior fuel. All of our current issues with E85 are due to the fact that you are taking an engine designed for Gasoline and compromising it to run E85. If the engine was designed from the ground up for a higher octane fuel, it could be built smaller and just as if not more efficient than today's gas engines. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1.4L Turbo Ethanol engines producing 200 horses and getting 45 mph highway in the very near future.

 

Which was my argument in the first place. You'd have to completely redesign the engine. But rather than ethanol, why don't we just use ethyl alcohol like top fuel dragsters. That stuff is so hot that the flames you see coming out of the exhaust aren't from the motor, but the air in the atmosphere catching fire!

At the same time, redesigning the motor of a conventional car to take alcohol as a primary fuel would probably rise the cost of the car more than the $1500 or so that Bob Lutz is predicting. And that $1500 just b/c of direct injection and weight saving materials.

 

the original automotive combustion engine was made to run on alcohol. gasoline was a byproduct, a waste product at that time, and was cheaper than alcohol and an obvious choice to burn instead. now we need to replace gasoline. an obvious choice was to go back to alcohol. redesign the motor. what planet are you from?

I didn't think you were that big of a tard..but I had my doubts..but seriously exit only dude. Check your injector for any strange corrosion

 

My research shows the first engine running on gasoline. Karl Benz's "Motorwagen".

 

Henry Ford had an ethanol plant way back when he was selling the model T.

The only major change needed to run alcohol properly is upping the compression, which, if done at the factory at original assembly would cost VERY little.

 

Which was used in a 1942 design which was made from the ground up to use alcohol. Also looked like that was the first plastic car ever made. And seems that no one was enthusiastic about it.

But then it looks like Henry Ford was thinking that ethyl alcohol is the fuel of the future. Which brings me back again to the original statement that it is good if you completely build a motor for it. Like top fuel dragsters do.

In all the reading I did, looks like we've been blending small amounts of ethyl since the beginning. Beyond that, there is too much controversy for any real facts to be spoken.

Still, I think it'd be best to build an engine from the ground up rather than slapping on a kit and seeing how much power you are expecting to get from a convention motor. Saying alcohol is superior b/c of what someone said in the 1930s doesn't help much now. Engines back then were only making 20-60 horsepower. Even Vtecs get more than that.

I'm still trying to read though. Just I'm busy at work at the same time.

 

Motorwagon - 1885
Model T - 1908

 

The car that was built for alcohol was patented in 1942.

 

I'm telling you both the above were built to run on alcohol at the dates quoted, but, sure, there were no patents applied for them in that manner.

 

WERD! You need to have an alcohol sensor in the fuel system to adjust the AFR between the 14.7 and ~11.0 that the two run on. Ethanol will destroy your motor if run at 14.7 AFR. So far the only cobalts with the alcohol sensor are the 2.4L and from the factory they are not setup for E85......and they also have programs for Displacement on Demand to shut cylinders off.

 

So the first car...1 hp...was made for alcohol. I seriously doubt it. No evidence points to it. It was powered by whats called the Otto gasoline engine.

Also willing to say this is the longest thread I've kept alive in a debate.

 

I personally only did the research on the Model T, so I can't really speak or confirm any data on the Motorwagon.

So, My point is that 1908 is still a long time before 1942.

 

Your point was that the original automobiles were built to run on alcohol. They were not. All kinds of mixes from gasohol to gasonol were experimented with, but with no conclusion that would lead to it going mainstream. Usually due to economics. I guess once the wheel got rolling with gasoline, it was never stopped.

Henry Ford didn't start off building one of the first cars, he started off building the first assembly line for them. But even for that I'm sure we're all grateful. Or that $20k Cobalt now all the sudden would have cost about double that.

As for research, I just googled. Alcohol for motors has a long history. At the same time, its not like we are ignoring it completely. Its just seals and gaskets don't die when you only have 10% ethanol in the tank.

 

I never said original. Henry Ford's Ethanol plant was shut down by litigation started by Mobil. The fact that alcohol became illegal around the same time didn't help any, either, and honestly, can be tied back to Mobil as well.

Furthermore, Mobil's own R&D department came to the conclusion that using lead as a gasoline additive was a bad idea, and yet they did it anyway. If lead was never added, there would not have been the need for the extensive emissions laws we have today.

So, quite putting words in my mouth, thank you very much.

 

Some of those cars were also built during a time when the grains required to make alcohol were hit or miss on the seasons and the climate was very dry. So it would not have been as stable of a fuel source to manage.

 

[QUOTE=Wild Balt;2419464]Your point was that the original automobiles were built to run on alcohol. They were not.

Yes, because gasoline was a byproduct of kerosene production from oil, gasoline was used instead of alcohol. Gasoline was plentiful, a waste product, instead of dumping it in the ocean, or your mother and fathers water supply, they dumped it in there cars fuel tank, and away they went. If only it was that simple today. Yes alcohol is dry, but with some petrol lubricating seals and gaskets (e85), and better seal and gasket technology, problem solved. Ok, so they weren't built to run on alcohol, but they're not built to not run on it either, like you had stated. Just like the original combustion engine wasn't run on gasoline. I believe otto ran his original engine on coal. With a few tweaks here and there the internal combustion engine could probably run on your dogs turds (methane) or hemp (mary jane..yeah baby).

 

Right, it was Silverz that said they were meant to run on alcohol. Sorry.

Back when internal combution was new, I'm sure the ideas for fuel were limitless. But now they are all tuned and tested for somewhere b/t 87 and 94 octane.

And I missed the whole Mobil scandal as I was speaking strictly fuel. The Prohibition didn't enter my mind. But figuring 1942 was WWII, figured maybe Ford was trying it out just b/c of fuel rationing. But even that didn't sway enough opinions to make the stuff. But think-if we did start to use alcohol, we wouldn't be blaming Exxon right now, we'd be blaming Jack Daniels! :P

Okay shutting up now.

 

lemming my ass, I've seen the out comes(from the production side) of some of these new bio-fuels, and some are very promising, and others are down right scarey.

 

"new bio-fuels"? I'm interested in hearing more about them, that's for sure. As for Ethanol, It is certainly not new, and what it does has been documented by Brazilian mechanics for almost four decades.

Methanol is certainly NOT Ethanol, either. I'm 100% completely against trying to create any more methanol (although I don't see it as a bad thing to harness what we already produce- such as current landfills, etc.)

LOL! I dunno about you, but I have an aunt that makes some damn good moonshine!

 

make sure to run the car for a least 7 miles for the computer to kick over unless your car is made for that then you don't have to run it if you don't it wount start at all.