Anyways. Thanks for the input.

 

I've yet to see a production block handle 1/2 studs know one ever does it right and they think they need to go past 80ftlbs you need a little spring there to absorb shock you should also consider going to a 3.45 bore it makes the head pickup Airflow(almost 30cfm) in the .330 to .350 lift a 3.500 bore will even more and your sleeves will more then handle either bore size

 

ive found a brand new gen 3 2.0l block, actually several of them. whats everyones thoughts on a gen 3 block limits? always remember it being "600hp", but im unable to find anyone thats had a failure, and found several people talking about running well into the 600hp range. i know css can put a deck plate in them, however im a little on the fence on that seeing they cant (easily) be resleaved, and im concerned about distortion and having to bore the block after.

 

the gen3 stuff is ok i think the lsj is a better block but i have seen some people pop a gen3 at 500hp and ive seen them go 750 and live.flatgod has the best setup you have the option to change a single sleeve you can increase the bore to 90mm (which you should) the bigger the bore the better the head works at low cam lift

 

i decided on the gen 3 block, at least for now. wish i wasnt put in a predicament where had to make a choice in somewhat of a hurry, but it is what it is. i have always leaned to the lsj block with either a cylinder support and drop in sleeves or darton sleeves being the best option. that being said, ecotec blocks, at least where i am are getting a bit harder to find. if i had the time id wait to find the right block, but being realistic with with machine shop back log and inevitable delays, i done have the time. ive got a drag and drive event in june, i need time to break in and tune, testing, etc before then. realistically i need the car running in march, which sounds like a lot of time, but in reality its not when redoing pretty much the entire engine bay.

im now just debating weather i toss my old 2.2l rotating assembly (eagle rods/wiseco pistons) into the gen 3 block and use all the new 2.0l stuff i bought into an lsj block later, or just build a 2.0l in the gen 3 and call it a day.

 

i would toss the 2.2 stuff in and do a darton setup later

 

When I originally did the build almost 10 years ago, all the parts I had acquired new from people who wanted to do big things but never did, hence the stock piston bore. I think the diamonds I used were originally purchased from intense performance if that gives you any idea how old they are. In the event of failure that required more than 1 piston needing replacement I'd absolutely be sizing up.

 

i thought the big power GM race blocks used a UNISTUD setup??

 

I recall hearing similar thing, have yet to find info on it though.

 

they did but from what ive read they may have went away from it in the later years

 

well, been through hell trying to sort this out. bought a brand new gen 3 block on ebay, the seller screwed me around for a month, never shipped it. i just got through the refund process and got my money back, but a month wasted and i still have no block. feeling defeated, i decided to have a closer look at the l61 block ive beat the hell out of for 15 years. bores are out of round, 2 of them close to .0015" and with some cylinder taper. with too much piston to wall already i dont want to hone it, so i just decided im gonna put a fresh set of rings and bearings in and send it. but before doing that i decided id give the honda life a try with a pour in closed deck.

filled the block with sugar to roughly 5/8" below the deck, packed it in and smoothed it out and filled the block with Devcon F2 liquid aluminum. once it cured i set a head gasket on and drilled the coolant holes through the epoxy and drained the sugar out. ill flush the block with water, and may fill it with boiling water to make sure it gets all the sugar out.





im going to stick the 2.2l rotating assembly back in and continue to run it for this season while i sort out my other engine. doing this will actually help me with all the other changes ive made to the car this winter (everything from the turbo outlet to the intake flange is new).

 

I love it. Interested to see how well this works. Lotta people on forums just want to **** all over peoples ideas and trying different things. I'm well past ever doing something like this but really enjoy other people trying stuff out. Honda guys have been doing this kinda mod for years with varying levels of success. Keep us posted.

 

 

What was used in this picture. I am enjoying this thread.

 

i figured i was past doing something like this, but when i cant seem to get the right thing done, well, this happens lol. i figure the motor owes me nothing, id never build another ecotec with this combination, and its worth nothing to sell any of the parts, so why not give it a shot.

im actually surprised we havent seen more people try this on an ecotec.

 

figured id post a little update. cars been running for a few months now, i just finished my second drag and drive event, racking up 1380 km (so over 2500km total on the engine) and roughly 20 1/8 mile passes. most of it has been sorting the new combination out as i had no test time prior to the event, but i did manage a best run of 7.08 at 104.5 mph spinning for 300'. unfortunately my diff housing didnt like the few launches with the car bogging, and the last pass when i hit the bump in the track and it unloaded the car.

long story short, no issues to report with the epoxy mod. car runs as cool as it always has, and the block is still in tact. as soon as the diff is fixed i want to get out to a street legal night and get the car back where i was last year, then in august i have another race day i want to run. after that im gonna start to throw a bunch of boost at it and see what happens.

 

Interesting approach, is that something that's done elsewhere ? I know guys fully fill blocks, or half fill the bottom...but first time I've seen someone fill the top for support.

How strong/secure is that type of filler ?

As for studs, Mitsubishi 4B11 appear to be almost identical measurements to the Ecotec and are available in 625.

On your 2.2 parts.....what pin do these parts use ? From what I've seen they use a very small 20mm, whereas the 2.0 stuff is 23mm ? Is the small pin a concern ?

I've a crappy 2.2, B207 based, Eagle rods/Wiseco pistons, ( not 100% confirmed as I bought car like this, and have not opened it )

But considering future options, and a the gen3 block looks appealing. But that DIY poured closed deck is certainly interesting and I've a spare 207 here anyway.

 

the pour in deck support is sort of popular in the honda world. lots of guys doing this with great success there.

the filler i used is very strong, its designed to bond to the aluminum, as well as act like aluminum.

ive found a few different options for head studs, there are some honda head studs that work as well.

yea the 2.2l uses the smaller 20mm wrist pin. its not ideal but im not holding me back from making bad decisions on the laptop lol.

a b207 isnt a 2.2l, its a 2.0l, essentially the same as an lsj. however eagle and wiseco dont do 2.0l parts, so im not really sure what you have.

the gen 3 block is a more proven method than what ive done, if i was building a brand new motor i cared about and i had the time i would have for sure gone that direction, but for tossing my junk back together for another go around, i figured id try it.

 

They used the B207 engines to build new when they were cheap 10 or so years ago after Saab went bust. So it's just a B207 block with Z22SE crank and Eagle/Wiseco rods/pistons. All bog standard stuff really. A good cheap platform to start from with all brand new parts ( second hand crank of course, as Z22SE was original engine in the car )

20mm is a pretty small pin, I've never used anything that small on any engine hence when researching options it was quite surprising.

From what I understand, the rods are dimensionally the same on a few of the GM engines, or damn close ( some minor variations in length quoted ). I did see on another forum a guy building one and the pistons going into this B207 block were clearly marked C20XE, which is another older GM engine. It does seem the 2.0 rods with 23mm pins are somewhat common on the C20, Z20, B207 etc etc.
With a set of custom pistons for a 2.2 compression height, with a 23mm pin, I'd hope I could use what's sold as 2.0 rods, which are very common and retain a stronger pin.

I'm not totally averse to considering a 2.0 build, but when I already have a 2.2 and it feels nippy with the M62....it's not really in my first line of thought to downsize. I'll be adding an EFR7163 in the next few weeks, so a lot depends how that spools and performs.

Still undecided as to whether to just chuck the turbo on as well as the blower, or go straight turbo. The instant throttle response and low rpm torque does feel good at the minute and I'd like to retain that, it just massively lacks any real power with the M62 alone. Not too many seem to have gone the twin route, but it has worked somewhat well for those I have found online who have, even if it is most certainly not the most efficient way to do things.

 

way back in the day gm did have an aftermarket piston that allowed the use of the 2.0l connecting rod in a 2.2l, but i dont ever remember reading about anybody ever going this route.

imo the 20mm wrist pin really isnt an issue for the sub 600hp level. i found no issues with the wrist pin, rod or piston when i tore my engine down, it had 15 years of abuse, the last year i was making somewhere close to 550hp. i also cant remember seeing a 2.2l build fail from a wrist pin problem. the more widely built 2.4l also uses the smaller 20mm wrist pin, again, cant recall seeing anyone with problems there.

as for compound charging, people have tried it, most find it doesnt work well enough for the hassle. most seem to think of it like a sequential system, however nobody is adding in a proper valve to bypass the supercharger and have a method to disable the supercharger (like a magnetic clutch), nor have they got the proper control for it. in the end they just built a compound system using too small a turbo and not running boost levels high enough to warrant a compound system, and it all just fights itself.

the 7163 spools quick enough to minimize turbo lag, no its not going to have that instant torque of the m62, but it will make more than enough power a little further up the rpm range to put a smile on your face.

 

It's zero hassle to do both. The blower is already there and working. If anything it's actually less hassle as I wouldn't even change the inlet manifold etc.

I probably could cut the blower intake up and create a bypass, but for ***** and giggles I doubt it'd be worth the hassle to do that. Although the bower intake is a bit **** with the laminovas. And as you say, I haven't found any means of clutching the blower pulley and retaining the small pulleys these tend to run. Any with clutches I found are much larger diameter.

One guy who did a compound I did message said they used a 3.8" pulley from an M90 on their M62 and made around 500 with an S362. I'd imagine that'd be laggy as **** without the blower assistance, although the 3.8" pulley probably wouldn't offer that much either...But I got the impression they did that to keep the compounded boost levels lower overall, with the turbo doing most of the work
He did also say the blower is quite restrictive at that level.

Will see what happens anyway. Lots of options are always a good thing. And true about the pins, I haven't found anything searching with problems. Just I've never used any engine ever with a pin that small.