Why I chose Powell Stage 1 after I already bought OTTP Stage 1
12-12-2012, 01:52 PM
#51
Now we can see the root of the problem. He has been getting his info from you. Are you really so biased that it makes you blind? Look and the pictures as anyone can and you can tell he has the right parts.
Your other comments don't even warrant a response in this thread.
Your other comments don't even warrant a response in this thread.
This was after you said you have made thousands of mounts and never had an issue
Your attitude is rude, and it shows in your customer complaints. A matter of public record.
12-12-2012, 02:09 PM
#53
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12-14-2012, 12:28 AM
#55
It intrigues me also i cant figure out how i manage to install these mounts twice without any of the op's problem, i am by no means good at working on cars but i can install bolt ons but i guess some people cant even do that.
Last edited by Vander Nars; 12-14-2012 at 09:03 AM.
12-14-2012, 07:32 AM
#56
Time for you to look again OTT. YOu said it yourself, you sent the customer a different insert in the mount, with the old thicker spacers that went with the inserts you have been using that cost , according to you, less than ten dollars.
This was after you said you have made thousands of mounts and never had an issue
Your attitude is rude, and it shows in your customer complaints. A matter of public record.
This was after you said you have made thousands of mounts and never had an issue
Your attitude is rude, and it shows in your customer complaints. A matter of public record.
12-14-2012, 09:19 AM
#59
you folks dont read. Let me summarize before I gtfo this deal
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
12-14-2012, 09:25 AM
#60
you folks dont read. Let me summarize before I gtfo this deal
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
Usual disclaimers.
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
Usual disclaimers.
12-14-2012, 09:29 AM
#61
I doubt, Vander, that you could install a mount with half inch too thick spacers. You would have to fix that, and ifyou dont have the machine tools to do it, the rectification might be ugly. My guess is, if you could not get hold of the vendor, to figure out why the parts were wrong you would get very mad.
A year or so ago, I had an issue with a ZZP part I was installing for a customer. It was made wrong. I got answers and a rectification within 8 hours.
I aspire to react as fast and as quickly when issues arise.
A person on here who purchasedYYZ springs had them stolen off his front porch. Even before UPS settled the claim, the purchaser had new springs in his hands.
Its all an issue of customer service for the most part. Telling the OP he is incapable of installing mounts doesnt help much.
A year or so ago, I had an issue with a ZZP part I was installing for a customer. It was made wrong. I got answers and a rectification within 8 hours.
I aspire to react as fast and as quickly when issues arise.
A person on here who purchasedYYZ springs had them stolen off his front porch. Even before UPS settled the claim, the purchaser had new springs in his hands.
Its all an issue of customer service for the most part. Telling the OP he is incapable of installing mounts doesnt help much.
12-14-2012, 09:33 AM
#62
I doubt, Vander, that you could install a mount with half inch too thick spacers. You would have to fix that, and ifyou dont have the machine tools to do it, the rectification might be ugly. My guess is, if you could not get hold of the vendor, to figure out why the parts were wrong you would get very mad.
A year or so ago, I had an issue with a ZZP part I was installing for a customer. It was made wrong. I got answers and a rectification within 8 hours.
I aspire to react as fast and as quickly when issues arise.
A person on here who purchasedYYZ springs had them stolen off his front porch. Even before UPS settled the claim, the purchaser had new springs in his hands.
Its all an issue of customer service for the most part. Telling the OP he is incapable of installing mounts doesnt help much.
A year or so ago, I had an issue with a ZZP part I was installing for a customer. It was made wrong. I got answers and a rectification within 8 hours.
I aspire to react as fast and as quickly when issues arise.
A person on here who purchasedYYZ springs had them stolen off his front porch. Even before UPS settled the claim, the purchaser had new springs in his hands.
Its all an issue of customer service for the most part. Telling the OP he is incapable of installing mounts doesnt help much.
12-14-2012, 09:35 AM
#63
you folks dont read. Let me summarize before I gtfo this deal
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
did you ever get your website up mr powell
12-14-2012, 10:26 AM
#65
Seeing as my name is used in this thread, and OTTP did not invent or develop these mounts , I did, I will say this.
The ears on the typical Delta cradle for the front engine mount are 66.5 mm apart. The cheap really sad ex Vdub insert that OTT uses is roughly 40.8 mm wide at the center of the insert. The more expensive better made GM insert that I used initially and are still good in Blazin07SS'car in Florida, and in cars running around here, are 51.1 mm wide.
The outer diameter of the bushings is roughly the same, the cheap really sad ones are a white metal sleeve that is not truly round, and varies in diameter as the sleeve is such poor material. The GM one is steel material and is truly round and overall better made.
so you do the math, its easy to see what happened to the OP and its easy to see how he could get upset about the parts not working for him as the spacers were not correct.
I do say " thanks" to all our customers for considering or choosing genuine Powell hardcore race parts.
The ears on the typical Delta cradle for the front engine mount are 66.5 mm apart. The cheap really sad ex Vdub insert that OTT uses is roughly 40.8 mm wide at the center of the insert. The more expensive better made GM insert that I used initially and are still good in Blazin07SS'car in Florida, and in cars running around here, are 51.1 mm wide.
The outer diameter of the bushings is roughly the same, the cheap really sad ones are a white metal sleeve that is not truly round, and varies in diameter as the sleeve is such poor material. The GM one is steel material and is truly round and overall better made.
so you do the math, its easy to see what happened to the OP and its easy to see how he could get upset about the parts not working for him as the spacers were not correct.
I do say " thanks" to all our customers for considering or choosing genuine Powell hardcore race parts.
Cradle ear opening: 66.5mm = 2.618"
VW aluminum bushing: 40.8mm = 1.606"
GM bushing: 51.1mm = 2.011"
Here are our measurments.
GM bushing: 2.005"
VW aluminum bushing: 1.609
Thick spacer: .500"
Thin spacer: .300"
So Chris88z24 clearly has the VW bushing with the aluminum center and he said his spacers are too thick. So he has the .500" thick spacers. He even mentions this in the private message I quoted on the first page. He clearly says the spacer I gave him are the .5" ones.
Here is the math for 2 spacers and one vw bushing.
.5+.5+1.609=2.609"
The cradle opening is 2.618" as John stated. As I have said all along the parts are correct, the proof is in the pictures.
12-14-2012, 12:29 PM
#67
Might be something as simple as the tolerance on the vdub
Bushing. The bushing with the two spacers as measured by Josh is .009 smaller than specced. Josh says the spacers are machined and the fact the samples he tested are dead on means they are likely within spec. It wouldn't surprise me to find the bushing slightly oversize (but still with Vdub specs for the part) making it impossible to install.
Also could be the ears slightly underside from GM. Notice the GM bushing as measured is .006 under the specced size whereas the vdub bushing is .003 over speced size. .009 difference might not seem like much but it could explain why the op had the problem. Not sure if the op ever stated how much he had to take off to get them to fit.
Bushing. The bushing with the two spacers as measured by Josh is .009 smaller than specced. Josh says the spacers are machined and the fact the samples he tested are dead on means they are likely within spec. It wouldn't surprise me to find the bushing slightly oversize (but still with Vdub specs for the part) making it impossible to install.
Also could be the ears slightly underside from GM. Notice the GM bushing as measured is .006 under the specced size whereas the vdub bushing is .003 over speced size. .009 difference might not seem like much but it could explain why the op had the problem. Not sure if the op ever stated how much he had to take off to get them to fit.
Last edited by sLAsh; 12-14-2012 at 04:25 PM.
12-14-2012, 12:38 PM
#68
Might be something as simple as the tolerance on the vdub
Bushing. The bushing with the two spacers as measured by Josh is .009 smaller the the cradle space. Josh says the spacers are machined and the fact the samples he tested are dead on means they are likely within spec. It wouldn't surprise me to find the bushing slightly oversize (but still with Vdub specs for the part) making it impossible to install.
Also could be the ears slightly underside from GM. Notice the GM bushing as measured is .006 under the specced size whereas the vdub bushing is .003 over speced size. .009 difference might not seem like much but it could explain why the op had the problem. Not sure if the op ever stated how much he had to take off to get them to fit.
Bushing. The bushing with the two spacers as measured by Josh is .009 smaller the the cradle space. Josh says the spacers are machined and the fact the samples he tested are dead on means they are likely within spec. It wouldn't surprise me to find the bushing slightly oversize (but still with Vdub specs for the part) making it impossible to install.
Also could be the ears slightly underside from GM. Notice the GM bushing as measured is .006 under the specced size whereas the vdub bushing is .003 over speced size. .009 difference might not seem like much but it could explain why the op had the problem. Not sure if the op ever stated how much he had to take off to get them to fit.
makes buying parts a PITA!
