I finished off last years list in either 11th or 12th.

Do I think I should have been on "the list" because two shop cars were taking up spots?

Not at all. Just have the throwdown, and whoever is fastest is fastest.

I mean if we were talking about LSx swaps, or RWD conversion that might be a little different, but as long as its still an LSJ or LNF and FWD, who cares who owns the car?

Kevin

 

Why don't you actually read my post before you say I don't want shop cars in because I don't have a lift. That's ignorant . What you obviously don't understand is that when you build a car to showcase and sell parts you there is an advantage. ZZP makes money because they have fast cars. They can put whatever they need into there cars in the way of time, money, or research to be the fastest.

I appreciate that they move forward the cobalt as a platform. And I thikn it's too bad that they don't have any shop competition. I wish AMS and Easy Street and HKS built and raced cobalts. I wish ZZP had other shop competition, but they don't.

You who disagree obviously don't know much about building a cobalt to go fast. Especially without shop support. Just because the prices of some of ZZP's items seem cheap it doesn't mean that it didn't cost them that to develop and test it. If it was so easy to run mid 11's everyone would do it. Once you build a fast cobalt and race it then you can talk about how much you like shop cars in the competition.

 

I think there should just be a top 25 all cobalts and redlines like was stated before.

 

R&D costs a whole lot more than time. There is always labor involed with R&D witch cost money, and don't forget over-head, which covers a hole bunch of areas that need to be paid for.

 

building a cobalt for 11's isn't hard.. it's people using their brains and realizing it's not all about power for these cars that makes a difference.. there is NOTHING that zzp has done that no one else could do .. again.. i've developed parts and worked over things just like zzp has but since i'm not running spectacular times no one would care.. it's because they're taking the top spot it's a big deal. maxim you're running a 35r on your car.. i'm going to be the dick who says it.. thats stupid.. sorry it is .. that turbo isn't good for the power levels your making.. with a 35r you're making retarded power or your wasting time on lag, there are people using smaller turbos making more power with a quicker spool.. alot of them, a 30R would've been just as good to make 400-500 whp for your situation

R&D costs money.. i've hundreds of dollars tweaking my setup for R&D purposes.. thats why the "kit" i'm R&Ding isn't actually an everyday promotion / sale.. r&d is money.. parts and labor aren't .. people need to stop kidding themselves that zzp is taking a top spot because they're something special.. (no offense zzp, i own a handful or more of your products and love your stuff) they don't have a bench flow (that i'm aware of) they don't have anything people don't have access to if they have tuning shops by them but what they do have is a drive and ingenuity that unfortunately only about 20 of us have on this forum to advance this market .. the rest of you saps just sit back and wait for people to do ****.. there is no new tech in our cars.. some independent research could've had anyones car running 10's before zzp ran 11's

 

Sorry to make you sound bad but I do have another car that makes great power in my garage at home right now. My 2.0L talon, 505whp @23psi on 93oct, yes, pump gas not race gas and that's just getting started for the power potentional in that car. I built it all on jack stands in my parent’s driveway/garage and at a house I used to rent. Did I mention in Michigan, which has winters easily as cold as yours. I didn't build it at a shop or have a shop build it, I built it all myself. I worked on other people cars to support my car, and also used the money to buy welders and other tools. The car went 11's the second year I owned it. That car does nothing to benefit ZZP, only me. I wouldn't call our shop a perfect atmosphere and if you’re not a mechanic then don't work on your car. So I guess there isn't much of a difference, only that you didn't know what you were talking about before you opened your mouth.

 

My post is ignorant? Re-read your post, and see what makes less sense. The only thing different from me and you, is I work on jack stands, right next to a lift in a heated shop. End of ******* story.

And, buddy, I want to see your times with that 35 on there. High 11's right? Yeah, why don't you just open your mouth a little wider and shove a little more of your foot in there... if you haven't got it all the way in there yet.

Just because I have more of a drive and passion for the car you drive (that I won't even own anymore), doesn't mean I have an advantage. I don't make money off this car. Ryan and Matt don't make money off this car. The shops do, you're right, and their paycheck comes from the shop. And I wish you knew how much of that money, from their paycheck, goes right back into their car.

How about, when you work for a shop, and spend a crap ton of your money on a car that isn't allowed to be showcased, then you can talk. How's that? Everyone has this stereotype that working for a shop, it automatically makes things easy and cheap. I don't understand this. NO ONE realizes how much we actually have to spend. SHOPS HAVE BUDGETS!!!! No shop can afford to give parts away. And, if you have ever heard the phrase "time is money" thats no different for shops, and shop employees. We usually have customer cars taking up both lifts at work, so that means there is work for the entire shop right there. And, you prolly can't figure out the significance of that, but that means we don't have time during a day to work on our cars. After hours it is. Its just like someone that works at a GM dealer. Should they be excluded because they get a discount on parts, and can use the lifts and tools? According to you, yeah, they should be.

Are you just pissed because you dumped too much money on a car you don't know how to drive, and you afraid you might get bumped from #10 if one of the ZZP guys gets up top again? Yeah, I think thats what your issue is.

 

Maxim, I have a built Cobalt. The only spots left to do on my car is have the head reworked again, LSD transmission, and better axles. I don't showcase myself. You act as if people who work for a shop get everything for free. I highly doubt that. I'm glad you have a 35r car. So you should probably beat their times then right? I'm not saying this to be ignorant, I'm saying this to put into perspective. You aren't allowing someone who is building their cars to have as much fun as you are. Wasn't your car done at SMG? So with that being said, you shouldn't be allowed to partake in the list either because your car was built by a shop. This is just a dumb rule that should be changed. Anyone who wants to spend time and money on building one of the two platforms should be allowed in this throwdown.

 

+1 on that notion

 

Sad thing is, this ain't getting changed because there was a poll not that long ago, and somehow, the whiners won.

 

Okay, I've been watching this thread for the past few days, and I'm about to get a mod to clean it up. Here's the deal, I left that poll for the shop car rule open for the ENTIRE month of January. You guys had an ENTIRE MONTH to vote or get people to vote. I saw a bunch of voting for like the first 10 days, and then it slowed way down. It's your own faults for not getting more people to vote. The site has OFFICIALLY VOTED and therefore, the rules are current and WILL NOT be changed.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the current rules. But all of these rules have been voted on. Get the sand out of your vaginas now.

BINGO

Nothing we can do about it now.

 

Well according to the poll, the Whiners are 47.4%
And the 52.6% either don't care or wanted to say its a car owned by the shop. No offence, but it looks like the poll was specifically targeted to certain people by the definition:

"Option 1 = shop car as any car OWNED by the SHOP and/or with parts designed by a shop to showcase the potential that is not avail to the public and used by inhouse(employees) cars. "

Even if this was the voted decision, ZZP should be able to participate based on if you call them up, and ask for a part they will make it. They just don't have the funding to mass produce it.

And ZZP employees own their cars, ZZP does not.

the poll shows "OWNED by SHOP and/or car w/ unavailable products esp EMPLOYEE cars "

maybe we should have the LSJ/LNF thread on its own, and have a Delta platform thread for 2010 on its own so we can see how across the board everyone is performing. But targeting shop employees who do prototyping and who are the reason why we know the limits of our motors, is just superfluous. We could also have a Shop cars VS non shop cars throw-down too. I dont have a shop car, but some of my parts I have gotten have been recommendations from people who spend their days doing R&D on these things.

also isnt this the drag racing section? So if I line up next to someone at the strip who is a shop car do I win by default now?

 

Ryan, what if ZZP speacialized in DSM's? Would you car have been the same? Or would it have been faster?

If you didn't would you have the cobalt you have??

MK do you think I don't know about budgets? Of course things cost money. Of course there aren't hand outs. It's not the point of any individual thing like lifts or tools or parts or experience that having a shop car gets you. It's everything together allows someone who works at a shop and markets there car for it that gives an advantage. I don't see how that isn't clear.

I spent too much money on my car. I didn't so things right x3. I know that. I am still modifying my setup again to try to get the car to be where it should have been two years ago when I first turbo'd it. I'd like to think it would have been different and faster to build if I worked @ a shop.

I got 1 chance @ the track last year with the 35 and frankly it was horrible. Partly due to my setup, my driving, and track prep I failed to get the potential out of the car. Best was 12.8 @119 on the limiter through the traps. I don't know how fast it will go this year. But, I can assure you no faster than 11.5. Do you think it would be different if I worked at a shop?

06red. No the car wasn't built by SMG. It's a local shop that I support, use and consult, as well as order parts from. I have had a lot of work don there in the past but 95% of my current setup was done by me. If the SMG cavalier was in a showdown like this I would call that a shop car and not want it against me.

 

I'm shooting for 11s this summer with my daily driven stockmotor lSJ !

 

^^^ hopefully me too. i hope i can make this list. it would be cool i guess, especially with all the money ive put into this car.

 

I wasn't targeting anyone. All the ZZP guys know that I don't have a problem with them. My car isn't even going to see the drag strip for probably 2 more years to come. I didn't make the options either. There was a thread where I asked for suggestions, I got some and then copied and pasted them into the poll, then left the poll open for the entire month of January to vote on. Where were all you guys when there was a ton of people bitching about shop cars not being fair?

Just so you guys know, I voted that I don't give a ****. I was kind of hoping that everyone would vote that so that I could include shop cars.

 

^ I just might join up too.l 12.5s and ill b happy

 

me too, i think it should be about going fast! not who does it.

but none the less your threads are always a great addition to the forum, we need more like them and less bs

 

Yeah, we should just start a FAST list. Where it just lists up to like 100 times or something like that. Includes any delta platform, 4 cyl fwd car. Just K.I.S.S. it (keep it simple stupid). Don't bother adding the mods at the end of the name, just a link to the pic or vid and slip.

**This is in addition to the throwdown.

 

I'd like to redo the poll one more time. Have it look like this:
A. Employee of shops can be allowed because it's all in for fun.
B. Shop cars are not allowed because it's unfair for the rest.

Having 3 options skewed the results because, as said before, shop cars would have been allowed.

And Maxim, as said before, I am not bashing you at all. I'm trying to reference things.

 

How about we just dont have a throwdown, we are all never going to agree. I do like just a list of top cars tho. top 25, 50 or what ever it would be.

 

just start the thread then bam problem solved. for everyone whos not afraid to race a "shop" car we will have a top 25 list.

personally i want to race against shop cars. if i can build my car to be just as fast or faster then a "shop" car then i know my hard work has paid off. people you need to stop being sore loosers. i diddnt make it in the top 10 on the lsj/lnf throwdown and diddnt complain either. i know i could have done better but theres always limiting factors. for everyone. even matt and ryan at zzp. thers always going to be someone faster get over it its a part of life.

 

I agree with this completely. This is the whole point of it.

 

Your not talking to Matt you are talking to Ryan, maybe Ryan@zzp would clue you in. The car has a ton more potential and 11's is a very easy number to reach in just about any turbo vehicle. If I built a cobalt and left it supercharged, 11's would not be as easily reached but a turbo swapped cobalt, then there is no reason to be running 12's.

 

Quoted because this makes me giggle.