the OFFICIAL aftermarket clutch thread - Page 3 - Cobalt SS Network

Go Back  Cobalt SS Network > Specific Technical Discussion > Drivetrain
the OFFICIAL aftermarket clutch thread >

the OFFICIAL aftermarket clutch thread

Drivetrain Transmission, LSD, Clutch, Driveline, Axles...

the OFFICIAL aftermarket clutch thread

Old 06-02-2011, 11:04 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by vahdyx View Post
How come everyone is saying its so high? Is it because the ZZP Rod
Not sure I have an answer for you. My engagement point was continuosly changing because of the leaking slave. After it was replaced with the GM stock slave, it felt really good. Engagement felt like it was right where it needed to be with no adjustable rod. However, with the adjustable rod, I believe one would be able to adjust it to where it was comfortable.
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:08 AM
  #52  
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: 04-06-10
Location: 6000ft on a Mountain in Colorado!
Posts: 3,703
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Then there's no reason not to buy KY clutch it seems. If it holds, cheap and reliable then I don't see why clutchmasters, ZZP, Exedy, etc are purchased especially at their price point.

If you can get all that with KY... Something isn't right, it's almost too good to be true.
vahdyx is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:15 AM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by vahdyx View Post
Then there's no reason not to buy KY clutch it seems. If it holds, inexpensive and reliable then I don't see why clutchmasters, ZZP, Exedy, etc are purchased especially at their price point.

If you can get all that with KY... Something isn't right, it's almost too good to be true.
Fixed that for you!
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 02:20 PM
  #54  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 12-17-07
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As of now, I have 500 miles on my KY Clutch. The pedal feels lighter than stock pressure wise. After first trying to accelerate, it would slip at 5psi (was not getting on it, just simply trying to get up a hill). I stopped doing that and would just downshift. I'm now over 500 miles, and i slips at anything over 15 psi (wanted to see if it broke in). I don't floor it and keep it floored, I left out instantly when it began to slip. I called KY, good guy to talk to with good customer service. He told me to give it another week to two weeks and call back with results. A lot of my friends that have fast cars (TT C6Z06, 383 stroker LS1 with a 300 shot, 680whp NA C6Z06, just to name a few) are saying that the pressure plate doesn't feel right with the clutch. They are saying since it is a single disk, it should have a stiffer pedal. Anyone have any input on this?
2006RedCobaltSS is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 03:28 PM
  #55  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by 2006RedCobaltSS View Post
As of now, I have 500 miles on my KY Clutch. The pedal feels lighter than stock pressure wise. After first trying to accelerate, it would slip at 5psi (was not getting on it, just simply trying to get up a hill). I stopped doing that and would just downshift. I'm now over 500 miles, and i slips at anything over 15 psi (wanted to see if it broke in). I don't floor it and keep it floored, I left out instantly when it began to slip. I called KY, good guy to talk to with good customer service. He told me to give it another week to two weeks and call back with results. A lot of my friends that have fast cars (TT C6Z06, 383 stroker LS1 with a 300 shot, 680whp NA C6Z06, just to name a few) are saying that the pressure plate doesn't feel right with the clutch. They are saying since it is a single disk, it should have a stiffer pedal. Anyone have any input on this?
Something doesn't sound right. Shouldn't be slipping at all. Did you replace the FW. Slave Cyl. leaking, maybe fluid on the clutch? Try bleeding the lines? You more than likely are going to have to drop the tranny again. My clutch grabs a whole lot harder. Something sounds wrong!
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 03:39 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 12-17-07
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hunter19707 View Post
Something doesn't sound right. Shouldn't be slipping at all. Did you replace the FW. Slave Cyl. leaking, maybe fluid on the clutch? Try bleeding the lines? You more than likely are going to have to drop the tranny again. My clutch grabs a whole lot harder. Something sounds wrong!
FW was turned, slave cylinder was also replaced. How do I bleed the clutch more? Something doesn't feel right as you said.
2006RedCobaltSS is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 03:48 PM
  #57  
Banned
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: 07-01-08
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,058
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Brags View Post
I think the exedy stage 2 would be good for you. I have nothing but high praise for exedy, just wish they made something to hold my power
My car is a DD though and it's said that a pucked clutch is not good for DD at all. But everyone seems to be talking about KY now. Im gonna have to check it out.


Edit: I can't find anywhere on the ky site or google cobalt clutches from them can sum one help me out with a link to their cobalt clutches?

Last edited by slobalt08; 06-02-2011 at 03:59 PM.
slobalt08 is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:03 PM
  #58  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 12-17-07
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well after talking to my shop and KY Clutch, sounds like its a bad pressure plate. Just my luck. Hoping the KY will take care of the labor also as this wasn't a free thing. FW was only turned .005" as a clean up turn because it looked new when coming out. KY said it was either turned too much (which wouldn't cause no pressure) or a bad pressure plate. In the instance, looks like a bad pressure plate. I will say they have GREAT customer service and he's willing to help as much as he can.
2006RedCobaltSS is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:05 PM
  #59  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 12-17-07
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by slobalt08 View Post
My car is a DD though and it's said that a pucked clutch is not good for DD at all. But everyone seems to be talking about KY now. Im gonna have to check it out.


Edit: I can't find anywhere on the ky site or google cobalt clutches from them can sum one help me out with a link to their cobalt clutches?
You have to call them to order the KY clutch. It's right around 390 shipped. You will talk to Chris I believe to order it and he works with you. They usually have it sent out same day.
2006RedCobaltSS is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 01:22 AM
  #60  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by slobalt08 View Post
My car is a DD though and it's said that a pucked clutch is not good for DD at all. But everyone seems to be talking about KY now. Im gonna have to check it out.


Edit: I can't find anywhere on the ky site or google cobalt clutches from them can sum one help me out with a link to their cobalt clutches?
Google Kentucky Clutch, you'll find the contact info.
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-04-2011, 02:55 PM
  #61  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Here's a quote by blackbird in the LNF Performance section, I thought this would be a good place for it.
"Clutches are rated for their torque holding ability and not horsepower (at least reputable manufacturers should not be rating in horsepower alone). Also not every "Stage" clutch is going to be the same. It's essentially just an overused label that may only be valid for comparisons between one manufacturer's product line. The industry standard, and using the term standard very loosely is that a Stage 1 or 2 is pretty close to stock replacement, most Stage 3 clutches still use some sort of organic-based disc (carbon Kevlar, etc.), while Stage 4 clutches are generally the ceramic puck-type discs.

Some newer cars use a modular clutch assembly which is essentially a one piece flywheel/clutch disc/pressure plate assembly all bolted or riveted together that bolts to a flex plate connected to the crank (similar to how the torque converter on a conventional automatic transmission bolts to a flex plate). There are also some vehicles that use a dual-mass flywheel assembly that has the flywheel split into two pieces connected via large springs around the circumference that helps to absorb driveline shock. Both of those types of clutches generally can't be serviced, meaning if the clutch is end of life you can't surface the flywheel and install a new disc and pressure plate.

Luckily the F35 transaxle in the SS Turbo and older cars uses a conventional flywheel and clutch assembly. It has a regular flywheel that bolts directly to the crank and then the pressure plate bolts to the flywheel with the disc installed between the two. If the car had very low miles and no signs of wear or bluing (caused by slippage and/or overheating) and you're upgrading you might be able to get away with reusing a pressure plate and flywheel with a new disc but it is usually not recommended. At the very least you'd want to rough up the surface slightly. Even then, if there are deposits on either surface the new disc may not seat and break in properly. Therefore it's generally recommended to either replace or resurface the flywheel and install a new pressure plate when you change a clutch.

Some clutch companies will sell a "kit" that includes a new pressure plate, disc, and usually a throw-out (release) bearing for a car but assume you'll either surface or replace the flywheel on your own. Others will offer a full replacement set that comes with their own flywheel. This is usually some sort of lightened steel or aluminum (with steel insert) and/or SFI-certified flywheel that is approved for certain racing series.

Clutch pedal feel is mostly going to be determined by the pressure plate and more specifically if the diaphragm fingers are stiffer and apply more clamping force to hold the disc against the flywheel. This will generally increase the torque holding capacity but result in a stiffer pedal feel as it takes more force to disengage the clutch. Some clutch manufacturers also modify the pivot point of the diaphragm fingers which can result in a different engagement point.

Pressure plates with higher clamping loads might sound good but they also place more side loading on the thrust bearing that holds the crankshaft in place and locates it side-to-side. If that bearing is susceptible to premature wear the engine could develop "crank walk" where the thrust bearing has worn and the crank has excessive movement. For a daily driven car that's one reason why you don't want to go overboard and think that a higher clamping force (i.e. pressure plate strength) is always better. If you don't need it or can find another clutch disc that offers similar torque handling abilities without as much clamping pressure (due to the actual frictional material itself) it can reduce long-term wear on the engine.

Speaking of the pressure plate, some "performance" clutch builders make their own pressure plates but many cases you'll find others just re-use or brand an OEM plate (usually Sachs, LuK, or Exedy for a lot of newer domestic cars) as their own. Sometimes they'll modify the pivot point of the fingers. Occasionally they'll replace the diaphragm fingers. And sometimes they'll just painting it and calling it good enough. If you're buying from a smaller, specialized clutch company there's a greater chance they'll reuse a new factory type pressure plate so make sure to ask them if they're doing that and if so what they've done (if anything) to modify it. If they have altered it ask to see what the stock clamping force was and what the modified pressure plate is rated at.

As an example, say the stock pressure plate is rated at 2200 psi clamping force and they've modified it so that it produces 2400 psi force. That might not be an issue, but if they've modified it or have their own pressure plate design that is rated at 3200 psi that would be a significant bump and might not be good for a daily driven car down the road."
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:04 PM
  #62  
Senior Member
 
hunter19707's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-09
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 2,670
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Here's another quote by blackbird. Sorry, if I could just merge the thread I would, but I lack the power of the mods.
"On the subject of clutch failures there can be many reasons ranging from manufacturing defect, improper design for the application, compatibility issues due to running production changes in intended application, or installer error. For example some examples, I've had very good luck with Clutch Masters clutches over the years but recently had a failure where one of the springs in their sprung hub, six-puck ceramic disc broke on my SRT-4. This was one of their very first kits they built for those cars and in recent years they've modified their discs to reduce the chance the spring can break the retaining cage. Because of this I'd have less apprehension about running one of their discs again but ended up going with an ACT replacement due to their own pressure plate design and replacement steel flywheel that doesn't use a modified OEM modular setup like what I was running with the Clutch Masters.

Also on the same cars, when SPEC released their clutches shortly after the car was introduced they had numerous failures where the disc and/or pressure plate would come apart and quite a few people lost their transaxles due to bell housing damage. A definitive reason was never found but it was suspected to be likely due to defective discs, improper balance, or overheating the stock nodular grey iron pressure plate and flywheel material with the aftermarket disc. For other applications, makes and model you'll find they have a proven track record and make bulletproof clutches.

Sometimes there will be manufacturing limitations or other OEM configurations that affect a clutch's performance. For example, the SVT Focus (of which I've bought two new) came with a small dual-mass LuK clutch setup and some cars developed rattling noise from the flywheel. Ford issued a TSB (technical service bulletin) and revised the flywheel and also made it slightly larger along with the clutch disc and pressure plate for better service life. Fidanza made a lot of the aluminum replacement flywheels that other clutch builders such as Clutch Masters sold early on for that car and it was based on the smaller OEM clutch size in order to reuse the OEM LuK pressure plate. Even with upgraded discs there were still a number of failures across multiple vendors because the clutch size was just too small for higher torque, heavily modified vehicles. Later on most of them started introducing larger flywheels along with bigger discs similar in size to the Ford/LuK TSB replacements and it corrected most of the problems.

There can also be many cases where clutch failures are due to installer or owner error. Especially on organic discs, if the owner doesn't follow the clutch maker's guidelines for break-in it is possible to glaze the disc surface and it will never be able to attain the proper torque holding ability it was designed to have. Sometimes the installer won't surface a flywheel correctly, use the incorrect step (which is the distance between the surface that the pressure plate bolts to and the actual friction material surface) and then have issues with slippage or the clutch not being able to fully release that leads to premature failure. On the Neon SRT-4 I've commonly seen where the installer doesn't properly inspect and replace worn clutch release components that lead to premature disc failure or shifting problems and in other cars where there have been cases in which the installer doesn't bleed the clutch hydraulic system correctly or doesn't torque the pressure plate properly that lead to a new clutch not disengaging correctly, making noise, or failing.


There's always going to be a small number of people who have a failure due to a manufacturing defect. When you move away from OEM to the aftermarket the chances of this occurring can be much greater. Things to look out for when trying to decide on a clutch are repeating cases of failure on certain clutch setups in certain applications that can be traced to an inherent problem with the clutch design. I'd complain bitterly too if I bought an expensive new clutch, installed it right, and it failed. But if I'm the only one or one of a very few that it happened to and the manufacturer made good on a replacement or I screwed up on install that doesn't mean the clutch design itself is bad. Now if multiple people start seeing the exact same mode of failure on a clutch setup you might be a little more cautious before going with a clutch from that company."
hunter19707 is offline  
Old 06-11-2011, 07:07 AM
  #63  
New Member
 
Join Date: 11-22-10
Location: Missouri
Posts: 68
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
do not buy a spec clutch, there nothing, but troubles but some ppl dont have troubles but ive had nothing but troubles. first they sent me the wrong kit second they said my kit wouldnt work with the clutch i ordered third the refused service to fix there mistake **** spec now im 4000 in the hole with gm not to inclued the clutch price. thank u spec for making my life a living hell not to inclule its hard to pay for **** when u dont have the ******* money a special thanks to ******* spec thank u for the debt. u make my life a living hell while u pocket the money.
A.J. is offline  
Old 06-11-2011, 07:36 PM
  #64  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
car - 2008 ss/tc with 41k miles. 318whp 389wtq
clutch - Clutchmasters Stage 4 6 puck purchased from Modern Performance (shameless plug)
flywheel - Clutchmasters aluminum flywheel
miles - So far only 40 miles of break-in. I will be putting 500 or so on this setup before I lay into it.
driveabilitly -The clutch and flywheel feel great in my opinion besides a low engagement on the pedal currently. The reduced inertia from the light flywheel made taking off alittle different at first but it's something you get use to in the first 10 miles. I'm going to put a few hundred miles on the setup before I determine if it needs the adjustable clutch rod or not. Some say the pedal will come up further with some miles on it.
recommendation - If the pedal comes up with some miles I highly recommend this setup based on the ease of driveability alone. Whoever complains about a 6 puck/lightweight flywheel combo has a limp wrist.
slowstang is offline  
Old 06-11-2011, 08:33 PM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
Brags's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-16-09
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 963
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by slowstang View Post
car - 2008 ss/tc with 41k miles. 318whp 389wtq
clutch - Clutchmasters Stage 4 6 puck purchased from Modern Performance (shameless plug)
flywheel - Clutchmasters aluminum flywheel
miles - So far only 40 miles of break-in. I will be putting 500 or so on this setup before I lay into it.
driveabilitly -The clutch and flywheel feel great in my opinion besides a low engagement on the pedal currently. The reduced inertia from the light flywheel made taking off alittle different at first but it's something you get use to in the first 10 miles. I'm going to put a few hundred miles on the setup before I determine if it needs the adjustable clutch rod or not. Some say the pedal will come up further with some miles on it.
recommendation - If the pedal comes up with some miles I highly recommend this setup based on the ease of driveability alone. Whoever complains about a 6 puck/lightweight flywheel combo has a limp wrist.
Just picked up my 2.2 with fresh FX400 6 puck, Love it so far, only bout 100 miles so far lol
Brags is offline  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:05 PM
  #66  
Senior Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: 02-04-09
Location: Walkersville, MD
Posts: 4,776
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
so i think im gonna go with clutchmasters now. Im gonna be making like 400wtq soon and the stage 3 clutchmasters seems like it should hold. Would i be ok with that or should i get the stage 4?
dayhoff35 is offline  
Old 07-09-2011, 02:40 PM
  #67  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With 500 miles on the clutch and flywheel combo the pedal engagement came back to stock. I'm happy with the purchase of the Clutchmasters stuff. I will add...trying to take off from a stop with the a/c on it's pretty tough
slowstang is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:07 AM
  #68  
Member
 
Join Date: 07-09-08
Location: Farmington, MI
Posts: 356
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2008 SS/TC
Had a ZZP Clutch - Stage 4 IIRC - installed near the end of last year
Resurfaced stock flywheel
ZZP clutch rod adjusted for mid-pedal engagement
Approximately 8K miles on the setup (mostly highway drives between Detroit & Lansing each weekend)

Think the clutch just took a **** on me this week after less than 6K miles (mostly highway). The car competed in 1 autocross (with the stock tune) a few months back. Other than that, it's been on DD duty. I was showing a friend the NLS feature and was locked out of 4th gear when I went to execute. Parked the car at the restaurant, came back out and it was acting up (more chatter than normal, uneven grip/jerky engagement, and a few new noises). Got the car home fine and let it sit over night. Took it for a 5 minute test drive around lunch and didn't notice a whole lot. Figured it was nothing. Then, hopped in the car and headed an hour or so away. When I got where I was going, the clutch started acting up again and the noises were back. Sounds like it's a bit of a metal on metal sound as the clutch is engaging.

I originally had the heavier clutch put in because the stocker was slipping with my tune. Powertrain is otherwise stock. The ZZP clutch (aka South Bend Clutch) holds the torque a lot better than stock. But, it had increased chatter (expected) and rattled at idle/decel (unexpected). Until further investigation, I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna do. Have a feelin' the same clutch isn't goin' back in though.

Last edited by SSpdDmon; 08-03-2011 at 12:23 PM.
SSpdDmon is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:38 AM
  #69  
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: 03-25-11
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 1,623
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Subd
TX.SS.TC is offline  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:29 PM
  #70  
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: 04-06-10
Location: 6000ft on a Mountain in Colorado!
Posts: 3,703
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What's the Drivability on ZZPs Stage 4 clutch
vahdyx is offline  
Old 08-11-2011, 07:41 PM
  #71  
Member
 
Join Date: 04-09-10
Location: south elgin, IL
Posts: 331
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
im thinking either stage 3 clutchmasters or ky clutch. Hard to say what i should do. I want to go the cheap route but im afraid of problems. I dont want to play catch with the trans pulling it out and putting it back in. I want it to be one and done.
turbohornet88 is offline  
Old 09-07-2011, 06:17 PM
  #72  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 02-17-11
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 944
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2005 SS S/C
ZZP Stage 2, and Fidanza flywheel
about 500 miles

I've done mixed driving, and after 300 miles a few quicker shifts. Clutch grabs great, but I may have trans issues or need to re bleed. big story on whey the car even got a clutch though. I love this clutch though, it's nice and smooth and the pedal is only a small bit stiffer than stock, plus it engages right at stock height.
Boosted05 is offline  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:20 PM
  #73  
New Member
 
Join Date: 09-16-11
Location: erie
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i have a base model 05 cobalt and im not quite sure what clutch to put in it....i was lookin at a stage one exedy with a lightweight flywheel but idk what weight to get
JAB2010 is offline  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:22 PM
  #74  
New Member
 
Join Date: 09-16-11
Location: erie
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
also when i shift into 3rd it grindes but it still allows me to go into 3rd so i have to double clutch.... is tht a sign of needing a new clutch
JAB2010 is offline  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:26 PM
  #75  
Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: 01-07-10
Location: montoursville PA
Posts: 388
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2006 LSJ
Clutch masters stage 4 6puck clutch
stock brand new fly wheel
about 8,000 miles on it so far
Great clutch for racing and daily driving
aweadSS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: the OFFICIAL aftermarket clutch thread


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.