"Syncro Saver"
03-31-2009, 01:09 PM
#1
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"Syncro Saver"
Hey guys/gals -- I'm picking up a little contraption for my RX8 to help from running into any syncro issues during my track days, but was wondering if anyone has something similar for the Cobalt. I think it's a great idea....now how much it really helps has yet to be seen. In theory, it should help as I know I've bent the shift fork in my RX8, but I believe that was due to the short shifter.
Example: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=168857
In short for those too lazy to visit the link:
Example: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=168857
In short for those too lazy to visit the link:
Syncro Savers!
Over shifting during performance driving is a common occurrence across a wide variety of vehicles and the RX-8 is no exception.
During spirited driving, the faster you shift, the sooner you get back on the power. Unfortunately, faster shifting is usually more aggressive shifting which leads to “over shifting” the transmission.
Over shifting is shifter travel greater than required to engage the gear which can cause serious damage to internal transmission components such as synchronizers, clutch hubs (which contact the synchronizer) or the shift forks. From the drivers seat this seems very slight but the clearances inside the transmission are measured it thousandths of an inch! In other words, a little extra movement in the shifter is eliminating the required clearances inside the transmission.
The next time you are in your vehicle, select a gear and release the shifter. Press the shifter harder into the same gear and you will notice the shifter actually continues to move past the point where the transmission is already in gear! In vehicles with short shifters this will be masked slightly because of the shortened throw but the internal stresses are still present and possibly worse because of leverage. During spirited driving it is likely happening with ALL of the shifts because the driver is focused on getting to the next gear as quickly as possible.
The bottom line, this slight additional movement breaks internal components! Race cars with aftermarket shifters have been addressing the problem for years and now you can as well!
The Syncro-Saver when installed properly will eliminate the additional excessive travel of the shifter with a definitive shifter stop which in turn will eliminate the binding of components inside the transmission. You set it, lock the stops in position and forget it!
This also allows you to focus on your driving and NOT worry about over shifting and damaging the transmission.
These have been tested on multiple cars already with the AFE Short Shifter and Standard OEM Shifter as well with great success!
Over shifting during performance driving is a common occurrence across a wide variety of vehicles and the RX-8 is no exception.
During spirited driving, the faster you shift, the sooner you get back on the power. Unfortunately, faster shifting is usually more aggressive shifting which leads to “over shifting” the transmission.
Over shifting is shifter travel greater than required to engage the gear which can cause serious damage to internal transmission components such as synchronizers, clutch hubs (which contact the synchronizer) or the shift forks. From the drivers seat this seems very slight but the clearances inside the transmission are measured it thousandths of an inch! In other words, a little extra movement in the shifter is eliminating the required clearances inside the transmission.
The next time you are in your vehicle, select a gear and release the shifter. Press the shifter harder into the same gear and you will notice the shifter actually continues to move past the point where the transmission is already in gear! In vehicles with short shifters this will be masked slightly because of the shortened throw but the internal stresses are still present and possibly worse because of leverage. During spirited driving it is likely happening with ALL of the shifts because the driver is focused on getting to the next gear as quickly as possible.
The bottom line, this slight additional movement breaks internal components! Race cars with aftermarket shifters have been addressing the problem for years and now you can as well!
The Syncro-Saver when installed properly will eliminate the additional excessive travel of the shifter with a definitive shifter stop which in turn will eliminate the binding of components inside the transmission. You set it, lock the stops in position and forget it!
This also allows you to focus on your driving and NOT worry about over shifting and damaging the transmission.
These have been tested on multiple cars already with the AFE Short Shifter and Standard OEM Shifter as well with great success!
03-31-2009, 01:19 PM
#3
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It doesn't appear to be too difficult to build one. I may have to check it out when I take the shifter and console apart again. It makes sense.....but I'm not a transmission guru by any means. This could also just be something for the company to make an extra buck.
03-31-2009, 04:07 PM
#4
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this is a good product from the looks of it however, seeming all trannies react different in there own little ways. isn't it possible this "locker" or w.e. you wanna call it will sometimes make you pop OUT of gear... if you have your car in gear... than get on it in your power band. sometimes the shifter moves, this is mostly in rwd cars i've seen that happen in. when it said there is play when its in gear... if your shift tower isnt auto-adjustable for the cables or w.e. wouldnt you just need to adjust the cables? idk i think i'm confusing myself... i just know in some cars i think it will make the tranny pop out of gear if you don't engage it good enough or have enough clearance to even get it in gear. i think if someone is going to buy it.. it is a hit or miss... i think in ferrari's and exotic's if you look at the shift tower and what not... it will form a H ya know what i'm saying... ahh its weird to explain.. maybe this will help explain what i mean... they make it so there is NO play and specifically set up for THAT vehicle..
http://adrian-gentry.co.uk/Other%20C...or%20small.JPG
http://adrian-gentry.co.uk/Other%20C...or%20small.JPG
03-31-2009, 04:16 PM
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this is a good product from the looks of it however, seeming all trannies react different in there own little ways. isn't it possible this "locker" or w.e. you wanna call it will sometimes make you pop OUT of gear... if you have your car in gear... than get on it in your power band. sometimes the shifter moves, this is mostly in rwd cars i've seen that happen in. when it said there is play when its in gear... if your shift tower isnt auto-adjustable for the cables or w.e. wouldnt you just need to adjust the cables? idk i think i'm confusing myself... i just know in some cars i think it will make the tranny pop out of gear if you don't engage it good enough or have enough clearance to even get it in gear. i think if someone is going to buy it.. it is a hit or miss... i think in ferrari's and exotic's if you look at the shift tower and what not... it will form a H ya know what i'm saying... ahh its weird to explain.. maybe this will help explain what i mean... they make it so there is NO play and specifically set up for THAT vehicle..
http://adrian-gentry.co.uk/Other%20C...or%20small.JPG
http://adrian-gentry.co.uk/Other%20C...or%20small.JPG
But if someone could make one of these for each car, I think it would be a good idea. Maybe not for DD's, but for people that want to race or auto-x their vehicals. Any protection is better than none.
03-31-2009, 09:14 PM
#6
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Kinda thinking this is not going to apply to the 'Balt.
FWD with shifter mounted to the body with cables connected to the tranny
---------vs--------
RWD, shifter is bolted to the tranny (why you can feel the shifter moving sometimes) and either a top loader arrangment or solid linkages.
Not saying we can't "overshift" our cars but dont think this product would help us.
FWD with shifter mounted to the body with cables connected to the tranny
---------vs--------
RWD, shifter is bolted to the tranny (why you can feel the shifter moving sometimes) and either a top loader arrangment or solid linkages.
Not saying we can't "overshift" our cars but dont think this product would help us.
03-31-2009, 09:47 PM
#7
basicly what you are describing is a stop. many aftermarket shifters for rwd transmissions have this built into them, such as the following pic of a shifter for a t56 tranny in an ls1 camaro
the screw on the end is one of the stops. now all vehicles require it, and fwd cars with cable shifters are on that doesnt. before you bend a shift fork you will end up breaking, bending or popping a shifter cable off, or in our case, breaking the roll pin.
i find in our cars there is absolutly no need to slam the shifter, the linkage moves quite free and there is little shift effort required even when racing.
the screw on the end is one of the stops. now all vehicles require it, and fwd cars with cable shifters are on that doesnt. before you bend a shift fork you will end up breaking, bending or popping a shifter cable off, or in our case, breaking the roll pin. i find in our cars there is absolutly no need to slam the shifter, the linkage moves quite free and there is little shift effort required even when racing.
04-01-2009, 01:42 AM
#9
the roll pin is external on the outside of the tranny, can be fixed in about 30 minutes. honestly i dont know how everyone breaks them, my cars an 05 and on the original, i just dont really slam the gears, its not needed. i shift fast, but dont slam it into gear. if that rollpin wasnt there to break, you would end up with bent shifter cables.
04-01-2009, 10:49 AM
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1500 dollars? The pin itself if cheaper than a gallon of gas. I bought one the other day to replace mine with it.
I agree -- the car is very easy to drive. I do believe the previous owner was an idiot and probably shifted as hard as he could.
I agree -- the car is very easy to drive. I do believe the previous owner was an idiot and probably shifted as hard as he could.
04-01-2009, 12:46 PM
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I don't know maybe they replaced more than that, but the roll pin and the labor for everything totaled like 1500 dollars, but it was covered under warranty
04-03-2009, 03:48 AM
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this has to be the best gimmick yet... when you engage any gear, you're moving the fork on the synchro into it's respective gear, if you push too hard your simply applying a lot of pressure to the fork, which will then keep the synchro pressed against the speed gear. i guess it could wear it out a bit, sure, but my god do people shift so hard they jam the **** out of their shift forks?! this isn't for the synchros, it's for the forks, and if you bend the forks yes you won't engage properly... but then you can adjust for that...
meh, I think it's a waste of $$. People should shift fast, but not slam the damn thing in gear. This is good for people who do. If you need to slam you car into gear, look into the reason for that and correct it... don't bandaid it with a $140 unnecessary item. shift effort gets better with mounts, i used to have a real hard time shifting quick to 2nd stock, now that all the mounts are solid winding out 1st into 2nd is as smooth as glass, and makes powershifting the LSJ possible.
meh, I think it's a waste of $$. People should shift fast, but not slam the damn thing in gear. This is good for people who do. If you need to slam you car into gear, look into the reason for that and correct it... don't bandaid it with a $140 unnecessary item. shift effort gets better with mounts, i used to have a real hard time shifting quick to 2nd stock, now that all the mounts are solid winding out 1st into 2nd is as smooth as glass, and makes powershifting the LSJ possible.
04-03-2009, 04:54 PM
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duely noted, that makes sense... but for our cars, not necessary since we have linkage. i'm still blown away at spending $140 for a device that saves you from being careless and slammin the crap out of your shifter...
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