This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read... that's like saying your car is inferior because it runs on gasoline...

 

I'm going to wait and drive one for my self.
That will be the true test!

 

No, i'm just saying: "way to be unique GM." They went with the flow, maybe it'll sell more SS'. The turbo is obviously a selling point. Just not to me! You just don't see superchargers strapped to most of the cars driven around today. GM had quite a few with the 3.8L SC... but they're being phased out too.

 

Its not at all stupid. To some people its more important to be unique than it is to have the uber fast same as everyone else turbo. Gasoline is a necessity to driving a car, FI is not. Comparing not liking/wanting a turbo car to running on gasoline is a silly comparison.

 

All of the arguing on this topic (not that anyone is arguing here) is a moot point.
For the pure and simple fact that at the end of the day, all GM wants to do is sell cars.

They have to look at the market, and I am sure have realized that Turbo's sell like hotcakes, and superchargers dont.

They went the SC route, now they will see if they can do better in a bigger market.

We all have our preferances, and thats great, but arguing over it isnt going to change the fact that GM has canned the ss/sc for the ss/tc.

For those of us who have our SC's lets enjoy them!
We should all be glad that GM is keeping the SS alive at all.

At the end of the day, the SS fans are still getting blown, we just got a new "girlfriend" to do it!

SC + TC =

 

Awww, we can all get along. J/k man, I agree 100%

 

The real reality is they didnt just go with the flow . The turbo wasnt chosen for "popularity" or to be cool and in with the rest of the crowd . With a OEM , emissions and fuel economy rule over EVERYTHING . The final power #'s are a result of satifying the 2 above adjectives . Hence , GM cant just hot rod a engine like we as enthusist do ....if that were the case , GM coulda had LNF beating supercharged CObalt SS in the showrooms 2 years ago .....read any of their build book lately ? The turbo was heavily scrutinized by GM and choosen as the best way to substantially increase power while delivering better fuel economy and meeting present and future much stricter emmissions standards . Before I get blasted on the "substantial power increase" comment ....the initial rating of 260/260 wont be staying that way for long . The 260/260 #'s are holding back on what this engine is fully capable of . The LNF or a very similar version of will work its way into Saab , Holden , Vauxhall , Opel , Pontiac ( rwd small 4-door) and Cadillac ( same rwd small rwd chassis as Pontiac ) . This is the new performance 4 cyl for all GM divisions over the world that will use a hi-po 4cyl. ( excluding the micro cars like the Opel Corsa , and Aveo ect. ect. )

Thats the fact of the matter

GM has long standing relationship with Eaton and ALOT of R&D roots superchargers . If GM could have satified all their stated goals with the 4 cyl global engines , Im pretty positive you would have seen a new TVS Eaton on the LNF . Before anyone compares why they used superchargers on 3 new V8 engines comming out , tuning a high output 4 cyl is not as simple when it comes to emissions and economy .

Sorry to get all serious .....but man , GM is being wrongly bashed for the move to turbocharging . And instead of bashing on the people that are making some pretty ignorant comments about the LNF , to maybe help them understand why .

If all the functions of the Bosch PCM is ever fully figured out , this engine is gonna be brutal .

 

Yes, good catch on that. I didn't mention any emmisions standard requirments at all... Most of us Canadians don't have to worry about all these silly emissions as much as you Americans. So its rare i bother even worrying about it.
Thanks for that Silver SS SC!

 

I don't get some of the **** I read on this site. I say about 70% of the SS/SC owners are hatin on this car. Bottom line is an 08 SS/TC is going to walk an 07SS/SC stock for stock. GM doesn't care if your modded stage 2 or stage 3 pullied balt will beat the 08 SS/TC. Everyone was bitching and complaining when 07 was the last year for the SS/SC. Now they bring up back an SS with a power adder with 55 more horsepower off of the lot and people are bashing the car. I would think that a Cobalt enthusiast would appreciate the 08 with 260hp. I keep reading what people are griping about the car and the thing isnt out yet. Instead they are comparing different models with the same motor. I have a Staged Balt and personally can't wait to see was the 08 does.

 

And you're stupid if you believe that its just SS/SC owners "hating" on the LNF. Look at half the people who have the Anti LNF things in their sigs, they're 2.4 and 2.2's. Most of aren't "hating", many people are over hyping, and those people have even admitted it.

And your knowledge is showing, if you didn't know, the SS/SC is heavily underrated. GM says its 205 at the crank....its not, people dyno around 210-220, and thats 240 crank horsepower. Thats 20 more CRANK horsepower, so we will give the SS/TC 240ish whp, yes still more than the SS/SC, but unlike what you just said, the SS/TC will not live up to all the hype you give it, it will be faster yes, this is common knowledge, NOT ONE PERSON has denied the 08 will be faster, but it won't be a huge distinction like you think it will be.

You're humping on it and you don't even really know what it can do either, as it isn't out yet.

Most people here aren't cobalt enthusiasts, they're car enthusiasts, not limited to one car.

 

The people hating on turbos are biased for one reason or another. If you look at 'facts', turbo owns the supercharger in every aspect EXCEPT one - which is lag....which is a pretty big deal, but there are plenty ways to get around lag...one of which GM is including on the ss/tc to practically eliminate lag entirely.

A turbo isn't belt driven and doesn't take power away from the engine to run itself.

A turbo doesn't create near the heat that a supercharger does.

The boost on a turbo can easily be turned up with a MBC, which is as easy as popping your hood and turning a screw. It takes a whole 2 seconds, vs. at least 15 minutes to change a supercharger pulley, and spending the money to buy all the different sized pulleys. A MBC costs about $10. Enough said on that.

Regardless, because of these 3 things, it is SOOO much easier to make a turbo car go fast. I'd pretty much guarantee the fastest streetable SS/TC is going to have complete ownage over the fastest streetable SS/SC.

Ya, most people out there would prefer a turbo or a supercharger on their car....and there is probably a reason for that....because it IS better. A turbo also acts like a muffler to give turbo cars a much deeper tone than a n/a or supercharged car.

I'm not dissing my own car, cause I do love it, but I'm not going to be butt-hurt when I get raped by a SS/TC, cause I know it'll happen.

 

I agree with this post, but not everyone is hating on the turbos at all. Its common knowledge that turbos are more efficient and you will gain bigger numbers with a turbo.

It also depends on what you have your car for. In a straight line, yes, a turbo will win, its a turbo, enough said. I think in a road course, an SC would be a better application, no? Well that and/or twin turbo or very small turbo with no lag.

But to everyone, being the fastest isn't important. I KNOW i'm going to get beat by MANY SS/TC's lol. But I don't care. I don't like turbos versus superchargers. I've grown up around turbos too. I like being different and not turboing my car, rather SCing it, I also prefer the sound better.

heck if I really wanted to get fast I would just get a turbo swap for my car, but that isn't important to me, being the fastest ever.

Good post though DSMissed! What you said was very true!

 

Ya, you can't go around thinking you are - or wanting to be - the fastest car out there. Cause no matter what, there is always something faster.
And I agree, in something like autox...supercharger would own!!

And I shouldn't have said 'hating', cause no one really is.

 

i want one screw this 2.2 i cant do anything with

 

brembos are nice, till you need pads and rotors

 

brembos are nice, till you need pads and rotors

 

I think Jason Whitefield would disagree. CUrrnetly the fastest cobalt is a 2.2L I believe. Over 1000hp.

Dude, work with whatcha got, don't go into debt over a car. If you can afford it, do it, but not until then. Heck, I would have been happy with a manual 2.2L. My first car was a auto 2.2L, I JUST got out of it into a SC that I haven't evend riven yet, but I will in 9 days!

 

Where did you read/hear that it was torque limited? I haven't read that anywhere. Thought I am sure that it will have to be.

Also, the SS/SC already restricts torque. In LSJ cars when operating under heavy throttle load in 1st and 2nd gear above 5,800 RPM the PCM disables boost! I don't understand how you are claiming that the LSJ doesn't have any restrictions?




I don't think that the SS/TC will be a whole lot quicker than an SS/SC. I would imagine a stage II SS/SC will run similar 0-60 and quarter times.

 

It was in one of the SS TC threads delivered by a magazine, but i am unable to find it now... (nice timing eh?)
But i was unaware of LSJ boost/torque reduction, until now.
I would like to know if plain old WOT counts as a heavy load condition? (it makes sense!) But until then, I stand corrected. Thanks mi6!
But then, provided this info, are our boost gauges incorrect above 5800 rpm in gears one and two, under WOT? Because mine goes to 85 Kpa, and stays until i shift (clutch engage).

 

These threads get more stupid by the page. Turbo nut huggers, SC nut huggers, and useless made up facts. 70% of SC owners are hating on the turbo. Did you get that garbage from Fox News? It sounds like something they would say. and by that I mean totally made up and BS.

I really don't hear any "hate" on the TC. I hear a lot of people saying that it's not going to be a big improvement over the SC and that's fact. I think alot of people think it's going to be a magical low 13 second car but it's not. It's still FWD so it won't hook for **** just like the SC. I expect a quatermile time around 14.0. The good drivers will hit high 13s and with traction mods you are looking at 13.7 or 13.8. That's not much more then a stock SC with traction mods. I know, I've run 13.9 with mounts and the airbox mod.

None of that really matters though. The whole point of alot of the bitching is that this is way out of hand. The car is a half a year away and people act like it's in their driveway. We no nothing of the cars peformance except for speculation and already the douchebaggary here is at an all time high and honestly that's no small feat. I'm not sure what is worse the haters or the nut huggers.

Until someone gets one of these and puts up some numbers I think everyone should shut the **** up.

 

PWNED EVERYBODY!!!!!!! /end thread!

But on another thread as we see, what I said came true: A new member or two like WhiteSS/TCOwner, have come here and have been nothing but trouble and starting trouble and causing discord! Exactly what i said! Looks like so far everyone's presdictions are true....

back on topic......IMADreamer......just pwned everyone. + 1000 imaginary rep..../end thread

 

i wonder how dope these TC cobalts will be

 

AGREED 4X...thank you....
I was just announcing the release date as per the Trib.... and the debate over TC vs SC began...
I can't wait to test drive one... and maybe steal some better parts off a wrecked one eventually?

My main question: WILL TC PRODUCTION BE GREATER or LESSER THAN SC PRODUCTION?

 

where did he get the tune from. i hear there is none. im planning on AWD and all motor. if you know of anything thatll help let me know.

 

Here's my advice. Buy a Lamborghini. You want NA and AWD that's your best bet. Well you could get one of those 2.5 RS subies.

Honestly though, why sink that much money into a cobalt making it NA which will take large amounts of money to make it quick (not fast, quick), and AWD which will take huge amounts of money. For all that money you could pick you up a real nice sports car. But hey if you want to, go for it and good luck.


I think production numbers will be similar. The car in theory should sell better because it's turbo and has more ponies. So the turbo fanboys (as demostrated by this thread) will be all over it like a stripper on a pole. The car guy who hasn't figured out FWD sucks will love this car too. HOWEVER, the car is going to cost well above the current SS/SC. Brembos and the LNF are going to mean a jump in price, unless they skimp elsewhere. This car should come in around 25k ish. Also insurance are going to go up past the already retarded costs of the SS/SC. This car, when you consider the insurance and car cost, will probably be priced out of the range of your average 16-22 year old which is the market for it. Sure there will be the guys making good money out of school, the rich kids, and the guys like me who decided to buy one last sport compact before growing up who will buy it, but most of it's market will not.

I think all the factors I said point to similar numbers to the SS/SC.

However if GM somehow prices this thing the same as the SS/SC they will sell the **** out of them.