Well about a month and a half ago i started having probelms with the trans. The shifter would pop out of 2nd and into neutral. It would stay in 2nd it would seem until you get on the gas after the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. So i call and set up an apt at my dealer about two weeks ago. I'm still fighting with the dealer on this. Its even my uncles dealership but i'm trying no to pull that string and take care of it on my own. All i want is to not get ripped off and have them do the right thing. After all is that so hard to ask.

Me wanting to know before i bring it in do searching and find out the F23 trans no matter what car (cavalier/sunfire, hhr, 2.2/2.4 cobalts) its in has a problem with 2nd kicking out of gear. Most everyone said the tips of the shift forks break off which wear out the syncros and 2nd gear. I tell them this before i even bring the car in.

So they look at it and first claim my TWM shifter streched the cables and that was causing it not to stay in 2nd. Also saying they want to replace the TWM with a stock shifter ,saying it will only happen again over time . I say i don't think thats the problem but go ahead and install the cable to see if it fixes. They call back saying it still pops out of 2nd with the new cable and insist on putting an OEM shifter assembly in to replace the TWM, i tell them again thats not the problem but go ahead. They call back saying after installing a OEM shifter assembly its still doing the exact same thing. He then continues to tell me that i'm responsible for paying for the rental,service, and parts installed so far do to the TWM shifter being "Non GM oem equipment" which is $601. I say i'm not paying for anything when nothing has been fixed and its doing the same damn thing when i brought it in especially after i attimitly told them what the problem was from the beginning. I believe the next time he calls i'm gonna get a fax number and fax the Magnusson moss Act to him and have him look it over. I'm getting to the point were i might have to call my Uncle but like i said before, i'd like to take care of this the right way instead of having to call the owner of the dealership to get things done right.

a little long but thoughts or comments?

 

I dunno man.

I dont see anything unreasonable there.....
you went in to a dealership with a problem that is known to be involved with the shifter.....and you have an aftermarket one.


did you expect any less? we all know dealerships are skeptical of anything other than OEM....

When you found out its a shifter related problem, you should have put your stocker back on.
if it continued....then take it to them. with the STOCK shifter on.

I bet you a diet coke you wouldnt have had this problem with them.

 

After they installed the cable and shift its having the same damn problem, they didn't fix anything yet. So why should i pay for parts that didn't fix anything? For them miss diagnosing the problem

 

because you have a problem that is very closely related to your aftermarket part.

they are gonna try to rake you over the coals.
because you have a problem that they can directly link to a part that isnt warrantied.

 

Have you read the Magnuson moss warranty act?? Here's a link with a ton of great info.
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm

In short here is what it states about your warranty and aftermarket parts-taken from the link above

"With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used (see Attachment A). The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law."

And the thing is this is a common problem amoung the Getrag F23 transmission. The Cavaliers/sunfires, HHR's, cobalts (several on this site alone) all are having the same problem. And some of those have aftermarket shifters (a few cobalts have the TWM exactly like mine) and some have the stock shifter but still all have the same problem. All those i have seen that still had a warranty remaning, were fixed under warranty, includeing those with aftermarket shifters.

They called today while i was at work talking about estimates for the trans fix, so i'll be calling them tommorow morning to talk this over. I'll be faxing a copy of the Magnuson moss warranty act, highlighting the pertaining info, talking to their service manager, talking to my uncle the owner, talking to GM themselves and might give a call to my lawyer just incase. So we will see how this goes.

 

^ I think your right and they are wrong. They need to fix the problem. It is a good thing your taking it in your own hands and not calling your uncle. Go ahead and show them the Magnusson Moss Act. Should get their asses in gear and your balt back in gear. No pun intended.

^ Yea it is ashame you have to go through all that just to get your damn car fixed under warnity. Something that you paid extra for or maybe not but either way you paid and got a warnity when you bought your car. total BS with dealers sometimes.

 

yes i understand the act.

the quote above....is the part they are gonna try and use.

they are trying to say that your part CAUSED the problem.

not that your being denied just because you HAVE the part.

 

You expect GM to repair aftermarket screw-ups on their nickel!?
There is a "limited" clause added to the warranty contract because there are (unbelieveably) people on planet earth that assume their personal vehicle is the sole responsability of the manufacturer regardless of how it's treated,whats been added/taken away and what it's used for.
It pisses me off because it makes sensible owners subject to "The Spanish Inquisition" upon arriving at the dealership with legitimate warranty issues.
Get real.

 

Did you read where many others have had this exact same problem. Some with aftermarket shifters but a majority of those i've seen report this issue they have the stock shifter assembly. How can it happen to both cars with aftermarket shifters and stock OEM shifters yet when it happens to mine its the aftermarket shifters fault? They've never once proved that the shifter has caused anything. All they have said is "its not an OEM GM part so its nothing is warranted." They must prove that the shifter part caused the problem they can't say its aftermarket your screwed.

When i talk to them tommorow i'm gonna have them make a "detailed technical report" on exactly why the shifter caused the problem (broken PLASTIC shift fork, bad syncro in 2nd, and 2nd gearset).

 

The only question I really have is if you knew the shifter was prone to issues why did you put an aftermarket shifter on in the first place....it seems to me it'd have been alot smarter to leave it stock.

I'm in no way saying your shifter caused the issue, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.

 

There wasn't any issues with the shifter. No one has yet to have any problems due to the TWM, its a nice quality piece from a quality company. My reasoning is the same problem is arising in alot of cars with the F23 transmission. With those cars some have aftermarket shifters but a majority have the stock shifter. Now how can my dealer clam the TWM shifter caused this (which really all they have said is "its not an OEM piece so we can't cover this") when cars with stock shifters are having the exact same problem? I would understand if this was a rare problem or only those with aftermarket shifters had problems. But when both stock and modified shifters have the exact same problem, you can't blame that part, its obviously a tranny issue. There's a thread on here in the drivetrain forum about the 2nd gear problem. Two people one with a TWM and one with a stock shifter both have the exact same problem, same parts replaced, and both had theirs fixed under warranty.

When they blamed it on the shift cable, repalced it, same problem. Then they said the shifter was causing it to not stay in 2nd, they put an OEM one in, still did the same thing. They replaced parts and fixed nothing and then tell me i have to pay for both parts replaced and labor when those parts fixed nothing and they had still yet to find out the real problem. That shows something right there.

anyways i'll be talking with the dealer tommorow should be some fun conversations.

 

All I can say is its not just the service writer who says if its covered under warrenty.
GM has to agree as well, if they don't the dealership will not get paid for the job!
So if GM says no then even your uncles hands are tied!
Plus standard trannys never get covered under warrenty, if something doesn't go wrong in the first 500 miles then they will say it was abuse.

 

I have to Completely Disagree with you here.
I came from the coloradofans.com forum when I had my 05 colorado. There were guys at 30,000 miles on their Aisin 5speeds getting them replaced all the time cause of bad syncros...You can't say abuse unless you can IDENTIFY ALL the signs of abuse...bad tires, bent a arms, twisted driveshafts, abused differential, redlines logged into the computer, gone thru a few clutches, ect. ect. ...

The fact of the matter here is when you have a 3 year 36k mile warranty, and you are WITHIN that warranty, and THEY CANNOT prove that there was abuse by telling you all of the signs, then they WILL HAVE to pay for it, or folks would have owned GM 10x's over by now.

And with the 7yr 100k warranty. You can bet I'm taking it up to the dealer if I have any problems with the drive train (which is TRANS, ENGINE, RADIATOR, COMPUTER, MOUNTS, ect.) if there arises a problem. And if Denied, I'll have a Lawyer on Speed Dial, and dial that number right in front of them.

I was offered by my sales person to buy the car without a warranty, it would have saved me, oh, I'll just let you guess...


































































































roughly $4,500!!! Thats right, I could have gotten this car for 11k instead of 15k!

 

Well they are saying it has exessive wear 1-2 syncro needs replaced along with 2nd gear. I contacted GM's customer service, they are taking care of the matter we will see if they warranty this or not. They did say showing documentation of others haveing the same problems will help out since it will show its a common problem and not due to abuse. My uncle said they can also claim it as "good faith customer" where they can do the repairs have GM pay for it so the customer is happy. But they claim i'd still have to pay for the rental and shift cable and shifter which fixed nothing. The service manager had to go to an unexpected meeting when GM called so they can't find anything out until monday.

 

Update-Their taking care of the transmission/Brand new. I have to still pay for the cable/shifter/rental. Overall i'm happy, at least its a new one and not just rebuilt. Trans should be their today so hopefully i have it back by this weekend.

 

good to hear you found a happy solution.

next time go back to stock to rule out your aftermarket part....and take it in.
Aftermarket parts just give them something to point at and blame.
dont give them that option