Well, thanks alot! I printed this out, took it to my bank and handed it to the teller. You damn near got me shot by some cheese-eatin Magilla security guard who thought I was robbing the place. Long story short: Did you know that if you get arrested on Friday that you can't make bail until Monday? I didn't.

If you feel guilty, I've thought of a way that you can make it up to me. I'll be at Autobahn Country Club in September running a two-day event. You can come down Saturday and we'll install the stage kit on my car after my last session. Then, after my Sunday sessions with the stage kit, we'll compare times and data. I've got a camera and a MicroPod Sport for video with data overlay so we can make comparison videos for these fine folks.

 

My best laugh today.

 

Best question of the day!! EXACTLY what I'd like to know.

Well I've seen the answer and that's cool. I AM worried about the guy I saw post that his GM Dealer came up with some bogus 1yr/12000mi warranty BS...

If that's the case..I'm going to be REALLY pissed off.

 

Adding a CAI or a cat back exhaust shouldn't void any warranties. The reason I said shouldn't is I am not in a position to speak for GM in this area. As my posts state these opinions are my own.

The only area of contention I have ever heard about is for an oiled air filter. The filter itself as it comes from the factory does not void the warranty. However a large % of the end users put too much oil (5 to 10 times too much). Too much oil on an oiled filter will cause damage to the Mass Airflow Sensor. There have been bulletins out in the past that say if this condition is found not to warrant the Mass Airflow Sensors. I do not know if these bulletins are still out there and still valid.

 

According to mine they still are. People bathe them in oil...
One problem I find with the cobalt is the front wheel well itself. There is no louver in the wheel well to deflect water downwards as the wheels turn forward. Just a mis aligned open rectangle shaped hole. If you looked at the AEM I had on my 06 SC, you would see water being splashed DIRECTLY onto the MAF. This caused one of my mafs to actually toast. Also the installation of the wheel well was defective, and was not fastened properly on my SC.

I took off my maf once and noticed a small water trail up the tube...which I am sure over time will cause issues. Also, you have to have a hyrdosheild if you get the aem dryflow. They are like water sponges, which causes the sc to herk n jerk n bog.

I fixed all this by crafting a louver in wheel well and fog light, re installing the wheel well adding 3 more fastners in critical locations, putting a rubber balloon over the maf and a hydrosheild over the aem sponge (Which is awesome when dry).....

 

Geat post. A lot of good info. Seeing as I have a new CAI on the way I've been giving this subject a lot of thought. Next chance I get I'm going to find a Goretex rain suit. Goretex is supposed to allow air to pass through while preventing rain/water from going through. That's why the upscale sailors use the stuff. Not being a sailor and being somewhat of a tightwad I've never been close enough to Goretex to try blowing through it. Oh! Wait a minute. Almost forgot. I have a piece of Goretex rope replacement for my anterior cruciate ligament (football players know it as ACL) in my knee. But alas I can't see inside my knee so I guess I'll have to find that rain suit. Damn expensive stuff.

Like I said. I'm searching. Somebody might be interested in this.
http://www.knfilters.com/search/wrap.aspx

 

As far as the warranty thing... long story but my dealer actually offered to install my Hahn IC... and ended up installing it.

 

This is exactly why my AEM was water logged even with a hydroshield on it . The inner fender plastic would drop down leaving a gap right at a perfect angle to grab all the water coming off the tire as your traveling down the road lol. There were times i'd pull the inner fender down and dirt and stone would fall out as it had collected right at the bottom of the filter hehe.

 

Exactly why I will be going with a SRI and will never drop another filter into the wheel well of a cobalt without extensive waterproof modifications. In my climate it's just not possible. And I hear you about all the stones and road dust etc. I picked a dead toad out of mine once. You can fab a louver etc pretty easy but next time you look in there check the inside of your wheel well where the filter is, you will see evidence of water getting splashed right on the maf. Not good.

You may have the same improper installation as mine. Hard to explain but the engine side of the wheel well wasnt fastened to the car, it was kind of fastened to itself, with a screw through it with a nut on the other side, as opposed to being on the other side of the frame which would bring both pieces together forming a snug fit. Instead it was a water scoop. These are the minor things that gm takes a lot of flak over... lack of refinement etc... It would be sooooo easy to fox this during the design..

 

I had a sri on my MS3, heat wasnt as big a issue as people made it seem. I data logged and the temps were hot when idle but once the car moved they lowered. Also if theres a cold air box made it drops temps 10-15+ degrees.

 

^this is exactly what happened to my MAF. Everytime I busted ope tne wheelwell to check on the CAI more road dirt and grime was all over my CAI than last I checked/cleaned it.

 

May not seem like much but 10 - 15 deg. is a lot. Don't know what that translates to in HP but I'm sure it's a worthwhile amount. Exactly WHERE are you measuring the temp?

 

I agree. Ive had NO problems with my Dejon. Plus, does hot air even matter? If youve got a CAI the air is just going to be heated when compressed by the turbo, then cooled by the intercooler. So it shouldnt matter if it starts hot or cold, the end result going into the motor will still be cold.

 

iat's from the dashhawk. No what Im saying is if you have a cold air box it would be that much lower which is great!

 

Found this. Some may find it interesting. The actual air intake can be mounted practically anywhere. And if you put a rain sock (also available here) on it it would be virtually waterproof.

http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htme virtually waterproof.

Gotcha!

 

well you want colder air, but you also want the filter to be closer to the turbo. the lower the intake temps the lower the temp will be even after heating up. But like many state, during driving the temps are very similar, its just idling they increase much more. imo best for me because of my environment, is a sri with cold air box.

not water proof, only water resistant. that "sock" or water shield only keeps moister off and water drops roll off. If it was submerged it would still suck in water.

 

The turbo is going to make X amount of heat as a constant. If the incoming air temp (into the turbo) is Y the air temp entering the engine would be X + Y. If the incoming air temp is Z (colder) the air temp entering the engine would be X + Z. The cooler the air entering the turbo the cooler the charge air out.

 

I was just about to comment on that, the colder the air going into the compressor the more molecules you'll get per flow rate.

the air moves quick enough into the turbo that the air doesnt get enough time to expand so effectively it does get heated but you still get that many more air molecules into your system, and since its a closed system after the compressor, the air molecules are limited by their enclosures volume, so they cant expand. If they can't expand, then that means their temperatures are lower, even if its slightly. the gas law PV/T

Pressure*Volume/Temperature.

Volume doesnt change so that leaves pressure to increase or temperature to decrease to make up for the new number of air molecules.

The full equation goes PV=nRT.
R is a constant and can be ignored. n is equal to the number of gas molecules. the equation can then be moved around to equal

nR = PV/T get rid of R since it doesnt change and ratios and you have

number of molecules = Pressure*Volume/Temperature.

increased n can either mean the T became a smaller number or P became a bigger number, remember V cant change its volume is fixated to the diameter and length of the charge piping + intercooler.

Does this help anyone understand?

now if you increased the fixated volume a.k.a. bigger charge piping and intercooler, then you are either lowering pressure (most likely) or your increasing air temp. lowering pressure makes more sense unless the turbo was increased too. OR your number of air molecules increases since its directly proportionate to the above equation!!

 

I never did pass algebra. So why is so much emphasis put on intercoolers? Every forced induction I know of uses an IC.

So to make it easier for myself. Cooler, more dense air goes into the turbo at atmospheric pressure. Hot, something more than atmospheric pressure (reducing the turbos ability to compress air), less dense air out of the turbo reducing the turbos ability to compress air through the inlet tract into the IC. Through the IC which cools the hot air coming in making the air more dense and lowering the temperature out creating a temperature and pressure differential across the IC. Hot, less dense IN, cooler more dense air out, effectively reducing pressure through the inlet tract allowing the hot air out of the turbo to move more freely to the IC causing a pressure differential at the turbo between the inlet (cold, dense, atmospheric pressure) and the outlet (hot, less dense, more than atmospheric pressure), effectively allowing cooler, more dense air to flow into and through the turbo and continuing the cycle while all the while increasing the density or the air into the engine which allows more fuel to be fed also ahich makes a bigger BOOM AND allows the charge to flow through the engine more quickly allowing higher RPM (with the proper modifications).

My whole theory might blow, pun intended, but that's the way I see it.

 

To me a bigger intercooler is more safety than function.

I'm still so scared of burning up pistons like the LSJ guys did, but it's just paranoia as I don't think we have a heat issue at all.

 

because the IC can drop temps after the turbo even lower. remember you want that Z (low temp air). Problem is you get these rice racers that think the biggest IC is the best...and well thats just inefficient.

 

intercoolers cool that charged air, condensing it even the slightest will effective make more power out of your engine. hot air is bad. basically you can get a bigger intercooler without messing up your AFRs too much. hot air would make you car run rich! but I assume our cars can calulate how much fuel to pump into the motor right? since it measures air temps and what not. my guess is with out a intercooler you get lower hp numbers big time.

ima edit this to the above post, its true huge intercooler are not necessary on a stock car since its not moving air as quickly as a 600hp car would. a bigger intercooler would only change temps by tenths of a degree maybe 1-2 if your lucky on a cool day. a larger intercooler would just take more time for a stock car to fill that volume of charged air. and be inefficient.

those blown "cylinders" are from them running higher boost and not having the fuel to back up all the charged air, causing it to run lean. all the fuel is burned with none remaining unburned for cooling purposes. they make violent explosions inside cylinder 4 because of this. and poof there goes cylinder 4. the intercooler will NOT fix that problem, getting the correct fuel injectors and a good tune will.

 

Well I agree with your post to a point.

But your tune can't overcome massive amounts of heat. Those blown engines were mostly due to idiots running 2.5-2.6 pullies without cooling mods.

It seems to me that with cooler IAT2s we would also increase the longevity of the engine.

 

so your saying it wasnt the heat generated by the combustion that blew the cylinder walls open but rather the charged air was too hot entering the engine? I dont think that could be the reason. how hot are we talking? 200 degrees F? I guess that can even more effect AFRs huh? but an intercooler like stated previous could only do so much. it aint going to lower the temp by 20 degrees or anything. I'd say 12-15 degrees max. so the problem of the car running lean would still stand.

Put it this way, would the cylinders have blown open if they had the right injectors with the right AFRs? The heated air is going from an intake into a supercharger straight into the motor, there's no turbo that will extremely heat the air. I guess a supercharger compressor can get heat soaked over a period of time and heat that air up, but that seems alittle crazy to me to think how far that air is traveling and such and such a flow rate.

In anycase, it could be combo of the two.

oh by the way THREAD JACKED!

 

Yes, cooler IATs will prolong the life of your motor and keep the ECM from pulling timing from hot IATs that will greatly help performance on repeated pulls.