was on the road until 2 am yesterday delivering a race corvette, so not a lot of work done. There will be two versions; one for oem air cleaner placement and one for K&N style filter placement. The mounting brackets and hose lengths will be different...the install will tap into the existing pcv hoses.

One thing about this, the way we sell it will be different from the way most vendors sell things. Not to drive everyone crazy about it, simply understand that I want you to keep track and feedback to us, how your car is now, and how it is after time with the mods you get from Powell raceshop. It kinda makes our customers a sort of a development test fleet. The engineering in this mod is sound, the ideas have good science, logically it should work, and the execution is well made, not cheap.

But we need to see how it works, as we have only limited experience that says "yup it looks like its working. So how will it work for you ? Doyou follow the other suggested changes- using low ash oil, change in your driving routine, use tier one gasoline, always 93 octane of better...some may not, low ash engine oil may drive costs for oil changes up, and not everyone can get 93 octane, and may use 91 .

hopefully some will have fresh clean valves in their cars thanks to warranty, and if not, a borescope snapshot of what they look like. I should have parts to deliver in about two-three weeks max, about the same time the YYZ springs are out...

thanks for your patience and choosing Powell hardcore race parts.

 

looking forward to it, john

 

Haza for tester!

 

Im fascinated how this works and what it includes, can you provide more details?

 

http://www.wynns.net/product_files/d...29%2023079.pdf


Amazon.com: 3M 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit: Automotive
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2342781
3M

 

not right now. we do a couple things here that are different.
we give details when the product is ready.
we provide how to install instructions and service tool if needed ( on a return basis for the tool)
we only ask people to pay when we are ready to ship.

that about covers it...

 

Clean your Ports, plug the PCV port in the Head, plug the PCV port in the Air Intake, run Valve Cover PCV port and Oil Cap adapter to Catch Can/Breather, Tune the lean spot it gives, run E85 and/or Meth and see what happens.

 

go ahead. BTW the ports are relatively clean. Its the valve stems are not. And I am not thinking that your solution will do much of anything other than cause you misery and a lot of money. Let us know how it works out for you. There is a poster on here blocked his pcv ports on an LSJ turbo conversion and put in a breather and is choking on the oil fumes , and iirc says the car doesnt run right.

also, passing state emissions tests would be problematical.

 

My question is this, I did not Seafoam through the intake vacuum line until 62k miles, where I had a problem with the engine running out of steam at 5,500rpm in second gera and idling rough, especially cold. I was unaware of the practice of Seafoaming until searching the forums for possible causes of my problem and it seemed like a good first step to remedying my issue after I came across the intake valve gunk boroscope images. After performing the first Seafoam The 5,500 rpm problem and idle problem disappeared and the car started running smooth and better than ever that I could remember since buying it new with 40 miles on it, April 2010. The amount of dark, dark blue and black smoke emitted one the first several seafoam runs was astonishing. It took over 20 minutes of hard driving to clear the exhaust as discerned in the rearview mirrors. The next 4 seafoams required at least 10 minutes of hard driving to clear the black and blue. The last three, less than 10 minutes with the very last run being about a minute after the Seafoam fog burned off. I changed my plugs, which was found to be unnecessary after pulling the factory installed plugs (did so because some frequent Seafoamers swear up and down about plug fouling, did not happen on my LNF) and the car hasn't improved since the first clenaing but the effect is quite tangible and not placebo.

I am dubious on the claims that it does nothing. It clearly remedied my issue with the valves apparently not seating and sealing. As far as seafoam's purported inability to clean the stems and non sealing portion of the valves shiny new I see it as irrelevant. Beyond how the engine actually performs, my concerns are few. Simply put, I don't think the head or intake manifold cares what the valve stems look like. The only possible problem I can foresee is a large chunk of deposit breaking off much further down the road but I am inclined to believe that this will happen well after 100,000 miles and at that point i will simply take my chances. It is the only concern I have with my LNF and in comparison to say timing belt maintenance on other engines or the myriad of problems that affect other designs I consider this to be pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things for what I get: Excellent power and fuel economy and overbuilt for it's output.

I am interested in the Powell solution and since I intend to drive this car for as long as parts are available to keep it on the road (not likely long since I have had zero issues byond the rear calipers and the original revision of the shift linkage which is telling me vendors just won't have much volume to justify producing spares) and anything that will alleviate to any amount of effective degree a known detrimental aspect of the engine wil be worht money to me, a guy who intends to DD the best daily driver as long as possible. I just don't like the way it was presented.

 

rchiwawa reports that he has had good success with seafoaming his engine. He may be the first, and he may not be wrong, its hard to say without a borescope to see what the stems look like. Whatever the case, this part of Miko's post with a link is good information. Also the MB world forum quoted elsewhere has some really good information.
Rchiwawa also doesnt like the way the thread was presented, not sure if that was directed at me or not, but the fact is, this thread started with "gone in 10 secs" post #1 saying seafoaming did not work, and showing pictures to support that.

Miko's thread has this in it
"Carbon buildup on intake valves.

This is the big problem with most current GDI engines. Due to modern unburned hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance. To add to this effect, many advanced GDI engines also include exhaust gas recirculation in order to lean out the combustion mixture and reduce in-cylinder temperatures for certain combustion modes (reducing NOx emissions). Since GDI combustion has the ability to produce far more soot than premixed combustion (port injection), the problem is magnified.

Even more alarming is that these deposits can dislodge and damage other downstream components (turbochargers, catalytic converters, etc.). Manufacturers have added systems to capture these oil droplets and particulates, but no system is 100% effective. As a result, there are many disappointed early adopters with large repair bills. Even diesel engines haven’t been immune to these issues.

The reason these issues have slipped through to production is that they won’t show up in a 500,000 mile torture test. These types of issues will appear after years of short trips (preventing the engine from reaching operating temperature), bad batches of fuel, etc. As we approach the efficiency limits of the internal combustion engine, the engines themselves (and associated support systems) have become more complex. As with the transition from carburetors to electronic fuel injection, there will be some overlap between relatively bombproof port injected engines and the unproven, first-generation GDI engines."

So an A/B/A test with seafoam and borescope before and after would be an interesting exercise. May have to look at doing that; trouble is , if it goes wrong the test motor and test customer are in for a big bill....

"

 

John, on a sidenote since you worked heavily with GMPP/GM Racing in the past.. do you still have a good working connections with..

Mark Kent, Director of GM Racing
James Campbell, Marketing @ GM Racing - Performance Vehicles & Motorsports Division
Russ O'Blenes, Manager @ GM Racing for Powertrain and Advanced Projects
Jeff Kettman, Lead Engineer @ GM Racing

so we can put together GM FWD Platform Nationals..

 

That's a good point. Testing and computer simulation won't catch everything. A lot of times things don't show up until products into customers hands because someone somewhere always does something unexpected (not necessarily bad) just different.

 

email me. thanks

 

It was aimed at your stating it is completely ineffective. I was vexed when I had a steady onset of power loss in 2nd gear @ 5,500 rpm and over a week's time it went from a seeming hiccup to the new way the engine is going to behave. The trouble manifested around 62k miles. At full boost in third it didn't suffer the same effect; the car continued to accelerate where in second it would simple stop accelerating beyond 5,500 rpm. The boost readings were fine, the commanded valve timing looked correct (and everything else spat out of rpd looked nominal and I did spend the first 10k miles learning the read outs for the situation), the engine in second refused to spin faster once there in second gear. It also had a rough idle in hot conditions with a/c on and cold performance and grogginess but these were less of a concern although seemingly related. Aside from the aforementioned all I can say is when the engine stopped accelerating it sounds thin, didn't seem to slow the car down quite the same from compression when throttle input was completely removed, subjective but I feel noteworthy. My only step in correcting the problems? I Seafoamed through the center 1/4" central intake manifold nipple once, and everything is as it was in the beginning. It may well have minimal effectiveness at cleaning the whole valve but where my problem was concerned a night and day difference was had. I cannot believe it was coincidence that 5k miles after after the initial Seafoaming and all of the symptoms have yet to return. It is worth a shot in my opinion and I know an internet anon carries little weight with the sensible types but for it's price and my net effect I think to completely dismiss it as a potential stop gap until your solution comes to fruition is misguidance and problematic at best.

I stated earlier I am very interested in any devised solution because I know eventually the build up will come to a head and it won't be pretty when it does. The boroscope vids on vw and audi engines pre and post seafoaming confirmed for me that a more robust solution will be required in the long run. I feel, honestly, I was lucky that for once in 14 years of driving that a cure in a can delivered and I have always been dubious about said cans of cure.

something we didn't think of programming into simulation

 

That really happened fast for you. Did you seafoam the very next tank of gas? Maybe you got some bad gas or something else happened.

 

meth des help you just have to up the water in the mixture and make sure where you place the nozzle allows it enough time to spread and break throughout the pressurized air. a 50/50 mix is a good start but you have to give it some good sprays for it to start cleaning. the more water in the mix the more water will evaporate into steam and start cleaning all f the internal components.

 

I am putting a brand new head with all new valve train on mine...

Looking forward to this as I DO NOT want these new valves getting all gunked up. I did seafoam every other oil change and although it didnt get rid of the gunk all together it did keep it from lookin glike the pics the OP and others have posted. Im thinking its something I may have to do every oil change but that would mean new plugs every time too, so...not sure how I feel about that.

 

at my shop - we up-sell the 3M fuel sys tuneup service, I'll tried it on the 11' Terrain [Terrain has 2.4 DI Ecotec] and it works "BUT" only if the gunk isn't as bad of a built up as bad as mine..

the gunk on the Terrain was thin compared to mine.. once I finished "spraying" the application down into the IM, I looked at each of the four ports/walls and most of it was removed.. "BUT" the valves still had "lite" coat of gunk on them.. and I think the gunk will return the if the valves aren't periodically cleaned every season.. which i think, it would take at least two or three applications to get the gunk completely removed IMO.. at $40-50 for each application it adds up quick..

 

So would there be anything wrong with me removing my IM and just taking a can of brake clean and a pipe brush and going to town on these bad boys?? I was thinking of using my wet vac in combination with spraying and brushing to suck the gunk out as it breaks away.

Most brake clean has Methanol, Acetone and Toluene in it which is like the "Trifecta" (if you will) of bad boy solvents. I can't imagine any damage would come of me doing this but I guess it never hurts to ask.

 

the problem is "puddling" of the fluids which can cause hydro-lock and oil/gunk getting ingested into combustion chamber once it all cleaned up.. not every piece of gunk will get sucked up by the vacuum cleaner some of it will get suck in somehow, and once it's ingested, it's possible it can cause major damage to the pistons/spark plugs/rings/etc..

 

Thats why brake clean would be best. It doesn't stay around very long. It evaporates rather aggressively. I guess I could take the spark plugs out and let the motor breathe for a while with the IM off before putting it back together and starting it.

 

it's do'able but it has risks attached to it... the possibly of not all of the fluid will evaporate.. oil/gunk will attach to the piston and cause the piston to create a "burn spot".. etc..

IMO it's better to pop that virgin head off, and clean it the right way..

 

I doubt it was bad gas going by the sales reciept date I have for the Seafoam purchase and my fueling logs, receipts. To be more descriptive after about 40k miles the cold idle was roughish and throttle response could be weird until warmed up. The a/c issue was noticed purely by happenstance while I was down in Redding CA for the solar eclipse. After that I would test it out on warmer days in the Seattle area and it would again idle rough with a/c on. I only cycle the a/c system on Mondays commuting into work for about ten minutes simply to move the fluid and make sure it doesn't seperate from the lube portion of the r34 concoction, etc. So, i never had the car in an idle situation with a/c on since Seattle rarely gets warm enough to warrant running air con. I wish I had logged it but from time to time the engine would loose power somewhere north of 5k but after the Redding trip it happened multiple times in a trip and within a week's time became a situation where half the time the car in second gear and WOT would not accelerate. When it did continue spinning up it was not nearly as it typically was or is now. My best guess is that enough build up worked its way onto the seat of at least one intake valve and allowed leaked out enough pressure to where under partial boost the engine simply couldn't go further but when under more boost it wasn't as much of a factor. I can't account for lack of valve or seat damage if that's the case and honestly don't know if carbon build up has the potential to damage to finish of either face. That is why I come on here and poke around

Back on track, I am guessing at the actual cause was but until presented with a more reasonable assertion given the facts as best I have tracked them for my application I am going to have to assume that what little Seafoam can do did alleviate all symptoms from my car.


That said, I am looking forward to seeing my intake valves. Mine have to be worse than OP's image. My dealer gives free oil changes every 3k miles, unlimited changes but since that dealership is too far away and I can't see spending money changing it myself that being the case, I have several times let the oil life monitor get into the teens. The service receipts always denote Mobil 1 Synthetic 5-30 as the oil used. The oil has even during the longest stretch between changes remain quite clean in appearance on the stick and bleached paper towels. It looks wonderful on that stick right now. All that considered I still know my valves have to be way worse.

Until I get to about 90k miles (next spring best guess) or an installable remedy comes to fruition, I am not going to look. I am content with the situation under powertrain warranty as long as the performance is correct. A solution comes out a la Powell racing and it seems viable, pretty much regardless of cost, I am in for paying to have the top end given the works treatment, the kit itself, and will have a smile on my face as I want this car to be my daily for as long as possible. A little investment to remedy this nuisance today, potential creator of catastrophic problems further down the road and keep me in my 2900lbs wonder is well worth it. Unless they produce a sub 3,000lbs Camaro on alpha or a Code 130r, likewise sub 3k lbs with similar output and performance... I might make a move but that is years from happening and otherwise i want to be in this car for the better part if not a full decade. I didn't buy it to do anything other than be its last owner.

 

Hopefully some of the solutions wont require huges sums of money. As I have found out that 200 degree c inlet valve temperatures are the point at which coking occurs ( assuming the presence of oil in the inlet tract) then your driving cycle and weather would sure be a contributor. Keeping excess oil out of the inlet is key, and thats my part of the solution. Stay tuned, sounds like you have done all the reasonable maintenence things anyone can do, and running the OLM normally into the teens is not a big deal. But for a DI engine, using low ash euro spec oil and changes at say 25% remaining would seem reasonable improvement.

 

rchiwawa take the free oil changes.. your passing up free oil changes no less with Mobil1 from the dealership? your crazy.. yea it far but it's free oil..

FYI - Dealership Service Receipts - have to show what oil has been used b/c just in case there is warranty claim - either from the dealership or from the consumer.. GM voids warranty claims b/c either the customer or dealership used the blend of oil.. it happens..