Psykotuned Lnf Update
12-01-2008, 01:01 PM
#52
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12-01-2008, 01:06 PM
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The only Cobalt, if you're the one that this thread is about, but not the only fwd LNF. Andy still holds the stock turbo FWD record if that's the case. This dyno was a before and after when he put on a huge Spearco IC with his own piping. The HHR already had his full exhaust.
12-01-2008, 01:11 PM
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In general a custom dyno tune will net higher gains
but in the lnf world, it is about 5 hp over a canned tune as far as I have seen, when using an upgraded ic and removing the cats.
There is no hp tuning guru as far as I can see
everybody is in and around the same for the time being
but in the lnf world, it is about 5 hp over a canned tune as far as I have seen, when using an upgraded ic and removing the cats.
There is no hp tuning guru as far as I can see
everybody is in and around the same for the time being
12-01-2008, 01:17 PM
#55
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I would like to see some pics and such. Just throw some of the intakes for the LNF on ebay until you get your vendor status. The first to have the intake out there will sell a **** ton and this is your chance. My first mod will be a tune and pretty sure my next will be the wheel upgrade, maybe an intake and down pipe in between.
12-01-2008, 02:39 PM
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Here is a link to FF_ace/Psykostevo CAI pics https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/tc-cai-teaser-pic-144773/
Great job Steve!
Great job Steve!
12-01-2008, 03:20 PM
#58
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The Hahn tune was on a car that had Hahn Intercooler, Synapse Downpipe, and a 3" catback. Then I tuned it, and that's where we got to. That tune is also on 91 octane, not 93.
And from my extensive work with mods, they don't add ANYWHERE near what is advertised. Maybe they do on their test car, but I have tuned over 130 of these LNFs now and have seen more cars, variable, mods, etc than most people dream of.
Mods certainly help, but by how much.......you decide. Don't take their word for it, and don't think that 2+2=4 when you are trying to take their numbers and calculate how much power YOU will have after buying their parts.
I beg to differ. I have retuned a few LNF cars that were tuned by other companies and have always been able to get more power out of them. Huge.....maybe not, unless 15 more whp is huge.
Why do we need Cam Sprockets? I can retune the cams in the tune, and have been more and more recently.
I know a guy in Houston that can tune you if you want to make a trip out of it.
And from my extensive work with mods, they don't add ANYWHERE near what is advertised. Maybe they do on their test car, but I have tuned over 130 of these LNFs now and have seen more cars, variable, mods, etc than most people dream of.
Mods certainly help, but by how much.......you decide. Don't take their word for it, and don't think that 2+2=4 when you are trying to take their numbers and calculate how much power YOU will have after buying their parts.
nice numbers steve!
I have 1 question, on your dyno sheet of the hahn vs your tune, you were able to get 290 wheel vs 276 for hahn on a otherwise stock car, which is concurrent with what Hahn has on their website, almost to the number, as they made 278 with the stock ic and piping and the ppc,
but then on the graph above, you made 305 wheel with an IC, IC piping, catless DP.
Are all those parts only worth 15 wheel hp? I see that the intake and catback are prob not worth much in peak hp.
Synapse got 15 wheel more from just the DP according to their site.
Just curious?
It seems to me that from reading this site, as well as other lnf forums, and seeing dyno numbers from kappa's, cobalt, hhr's, etc
that no matter who tunes the car, with an IC, piping, catback, intake and dp, the lnf will only ever make around 300 to 310 wheel hp with a stock turbo( give or take 5 hp here and there for dyno variations), as it seems to only spike tq early on( which really is not an indicator of how much power the car is actually making) when you throw more boost at it, as the stock turbo just can't flow anymore air and make more hp.
hahn has 285 wheel on his site with the ppc and ic/piping upgrade, and the car has his intake and catback on it already, so throw in a catless dp, and we all know dynos have slight variations, add the 15 wheel to that for the dp and you are at 300 wheel with a ppc tune,
when you are at 305.
just my observation?
I have 1 question, on your dyno sheet of the hahn vs your tune, you were able to get 290 wheel vs 276 for hahn on a otherwise stock car, which is concurrent with what Hahn has on their website, almost to the number, as they made 278 with the stock ic and piping and the ppc,
but then on the graph above, you made 305 wheel with an IC, IC piping, catless DP.
Are all those parts only worth 15 wheel hp? I see that the intake and catback are prob not worth much in peak hp.
Synapse got 15 wheel more from just the DP according to their site.
Just curious?
It seems to me that from reading this site, as well as other lnf forums, and seeing dyno numbers from kappa's, cobalt, hhr's, etc
that no matter who tunes the car, with an IC, piping, catback, intake and dp, the lnf will only ever make around 300 to 310 wheel hp with a stock turbo( give or take 5 hp here and there for dyno variations), as it seems to only spike tq early on( which really is not an indicator of how much power the car is actually making) when you throw more boost at it, as the stock turbo just can't flow anymore air and make more hp.
hahn has 285 wheel on his site with the ppc and ic/piping upgrade, and the car has his intake and catback on it already, so throw in a catless dp, and we all know dynos have slight variations, add the 15 wheel to that for the dp and you are at 300 wheel with a ppc tune,
when you are at 305.
just my observation?
I see that the turbo is the restriction,
What I was saying is that no matter what tune you go with, hp tuners, ppc, pcmforless, etc
One tune is not going to make a huge amount of hp over another.
With supporting mods(ic,and dp, as I really don't think the piping makes a huge diff, and the catback and intake are also pretty minimal if at all at this hp level) the lnf will make about 300wheel or so with the stock turbo.
What I was saying is that no matter what tune you go with, hp tuners, ppc, pcmforless, etc
One tune is not going to make a huge amount of hp over another.
With supporting mods(ic,and dp, as I really don't think the piping makes a huge diff, and the catback and intake are also pretty minimal if at all at this hp level) the lnf will make about 300wheel or so with the stock turbo.
well if we had cams and high flow heads to put on, among other parts, even cam sprokets to fool with, then yes a dyno tune with hp tuner may prove worthy with the stock turbo, but with the stock turbo, and our only hard parts that really need to be upgraded at this hp level being the IC and removal of the cats, as the intake/catback is adequate, a person with hp tuners can only go so far, and as far as I have seen, it is about the same as anybody elses tunes.
and we are limited to a certain psi with the stock sensors also no matter who tunes it, until gm releases the 3 bar sensors, but even then the compressor will limit hp level even if you could throw more boost at it.
Its not like other cars with bigger stock turbos that are not limited to a set boost level within the computer.
I do agree the ppc is VERY limited at this point and is more expensive than a hp tune, unless you have no access to a person who knows how to use hp tuners.
and we are limited to a certain psi with the stock sensors also no matter who tunes it, until gm releases the 3 bar sensors, but even then the compressor will limit hp level even if you could throw more boost at it.
Its not like other cars with bigger stock turbos that are not limited to a set boost level within the computer.
I do agree the ppc is VERY limited at this point and is more expensive than a hp tune, unless you have no access to a person who knows how to use hp tuners.
I would like to see some pics and such. Just throw some of the intakes for the LNF on ebay until you get your vendor status. The first to have the intake out there will sell a **** ton and this is your chance. My first mod will be a tune and pretty sure my next will be the wheel upgrade, maybe an intake and down pipe in between.
Last edited by Psykostevo; 12-01-2008 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
12-01-2008, 05:37 PM
#60
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It would have to be one hell of a deal for me to make that drive. I want to also find a spare computer to throw a tune on but it seems that they are hard to come by these days. I just need a cheap tune to get me by until I can find another job(got laid off) and purchase HPT.
12-01-2008, 05:39 PM
#61
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It's interesting watching the lnf platform develop coming from the MS3 world. We have a k04 turbo as well (not the exact same, but pretty close), and the most a bolt on ms3 can hope for is around 300whp as well. Actually, I take that back, you can get about 20 or so more hp by cooling the intake charge with meth/water injection as well.
The fact is, the turbo is just simply out of breath at those power levels, and throwing more bolt on parts at it is not a solution. Sure, a pro-tune might net you a couple of extra hp, but it won't be drastic. You simply have a large bottle neck that needs to be removed if you want to make big power.
Adding cams, manifolds, etc. is not the answer you are looking for since you'll still be left with the same bottleneck. It will be far cheaper and easier to throw a bigger turbo on it, ensuring you have the fuel and tuning for it, and call it a day.
The fact is, the turbo is just simply out of breath at those power levels, and throwing more bolt on parts at it is not a solution. Sure, a pro-tune might net you a couple of extra hp, but it won't be drastic. You simply have a large bottle neck that needs to be removed if you want to make big power.
Adding cams, manifolds, etc. is not the answer you are looking for since you'll still be left with the same bottleneck. It will be far cheaper and easier to throw a bigger turbo on it, ensuring you have the fuel and tuning for it, and call it a day.
12-02-2008, 02:31 AM
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BUMP for stevo and the CAI......It sounds great ...especially with supporting exhaust modds..
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
12-02-2008, 10:51 AM
#63
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BUMP for stevo and the CAI......It sounds great ...especially with supporting exhaust modds..
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
And using 93+ octane.
Last edited by Psykostevo; 12-02-2008 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
12-02-2008, 12:11 PM
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12-02-2008, 12:12 PM
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12-02-2008, 05:05 PM
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BUMP for stevo and the CAI......It sounds great ...especially with supporting exhaust modds..
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
The Hahn car is at 289whp with the PPC, their exhaust & DP, IC and charge pipes, intake....... This car above with 291whp is nearly the same but no intake or IC piping.... that is worth 10 more whp combined.....
If a plain tune is all you want PPC is fine.. If you plan more than that, like exhaust, CAI,DP IC upgrade and such... you'll need a solid custom tune.... **** FYI: Hahn will have several custom turbo kits for the LNF coming soon too....
***Exhaust upgrades are pointless (in terms of hp) till around 340-350 bhp in these cars....******
Plus...observe, stevo's tune is more linear, not spiky\peaky like the PPC.... Stevo tested a friends car that had a PPC like I do... Hahns website says PPC is good only STOCK cars only... any other modds will be better suited with a good tune by someone like stevo.....
You'll get more out of your modds if you're well past stock with a custom tune to make all the parts work in concert....
I believe the numbers you refer to were derived from our car with only Hahn 3" Cat-Back Exhaust and Hahn/BSR PPC Tuner. The other mods you mention were not on the car at that time.
Any questions, let me know. Thanks!
-Bill Hahn Jr.
Steve, a clarification...when you refer to the Hahn kit, are you meaning the PPC Tuner we sell?
Last edited by Hahn RaceCraft; 12-02-2008 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
12-02-2008, 05:52 PM
#68
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I look forward to testing out your upcoming parts for the Cobalt SS/TC. It's always fun getting to play with something new. Will you be offering a Catless DP as well as a Hi-Flow DP? And anything else in the works that we could use a teaser on?
12-04-2008, 04:49 PM
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the mods on this forum ar absolutely HORRID when it comes to adding vendors....i have a friend who tried to give them money a few months ago and has yet to hear back from anyone.....but good luck
12-04-2008, 05:20 PM
#71
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Is this website for sale or something, because maybe someone could buy it and actually run it better. IDK.
12-04-2008, 05:34 PM
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u offering to buy it and appoint someone from here "in-charge?"
12-04-2008, 06:05 PM
#73
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I don't know. It just seems like a ghost town in here. I could probably post the worlds most inappropriate picture and it would take a week to get noticed.
Maybe they are all busy playing Fallout3 and forgot what real life was like.
Or maybe they have been busy building a business like me. Which by the way my Mustang site is closer to being a full site. It's finally a real page now.
Maybe they are all busy playing Fallout3 and forgot what real life was like.
Or maybe they have been busy building a business like me. Which by the way my Mustang site is closer to being a full site. It's finally a real page now.
12-04-2008, 06:09 PM
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Yes, I suppose it's not really a kit it's just a flash device. I could have been clearer on that since now there are companies out there offering "Kits" meaning parts and tuning packages.
I look forward to testing out your upcoming parts for the Cobalt SS/TC. It's always fun getting to play with something new. Will you be offering a Catless DP as well as a Hi-Flow DP? And anything else in the works that we could use a teaser on?
I look forward to testing out your upcoming parts for the Cobalt SS/TC. It's always fun getting to play with something new. Will you be offering a Catless DP as well as a Hi-Flow DP? And anything else in the works that we could use a teaser on?
Yes, we'll offer both types of downpipes...and in a fashion I think you'll find to be very interesting!
12-04-2008, 06:51 PM
#75
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Last edited by Psykostevo; 12-04-2008 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost