Thanx Again

 

My credit card is itchy Matt must be busy since I'm still waiting

I Pm'd you Matt... I'd like to get one before the snow flies which could be any day here :/

 

I am waiting to see if it will fit a Kappa!

 

Calm down, they need to find a Kappa first to fit test it.

 

dyno dynamics numbers...now...lol
stock motor car with full bolt-ons...period...haha

 

Something I am curious to see just for ***** and giggles (and because this is tecnically a bolt on)
How many whp can ZZP make with 100% stock parts other than the turbo with 93 and tuning?
It would be extremely interesting to see what they can get out of it at a reasonable boost level for stock parts (ie 23psi or less). An then again with nothing but a catless downpipe. (Best bang for buck part) Don't flame this I have a logic reasoning for wanting to see...
1) how well will stock parts hold up/what is the max whp attainable with them
2) as a true bolt on part stand alone what is it capable of
3) cost effective. For 2000$ plus tuning what can a cobalt do. Most people have well over 2000$ in bolt ons before ever buying the ZFR

Nothing like looking completely stock when going to a dealer or running someone who is shocked to hell when you destroy them.. Just had me thinking..

 

I just may attempt this next Spring. I am enjoying my car back to stock (GMS1) so much. Love the quiet exhaust and all that. Would love to just change the turbo and see what happens.

 

Once my warranty runs out, this is going in...

 

First of all, the lower the boost, the less the difference a larger turbo may make. These turbos really start flowing at higher boost levels than stock.

There are also a few problems with doing this in our particular case.

#1) The boost piping can blow already at high stock boost levels, and needs to be changed out.
#2) The intercooler is in the same boat with blowing at high stock boost levels.
#3) The downpipe is a heavy restriction even on the stock turbo, and will undoubtedly cause some flow issues that may be a bigger issue than just performance. If you can't get the hot exhaust out then you run the risk of increased EGTs/knock/failing pistons, as has been seen in the Cruzes. The non-hardware workarounds include throwing more fuel at it to richen it up more than you would normally, and maybe working some magic with the cam phasing.

Other mods are more performance oriented, but these issues above are present risks even in stock cars. They may only be exasperated with a higher flowing turbo.

 

I feel like you are perhaps missing the point of my curiosity.
I won't argue that the stock Hotside and intercooler are both inherent risks...even stock...the intercooler being the primary issue due to its vulnerable location and plastic end tanks. And in a few cases the upper charge pipe had blown open. Given the nature of a turbo upgrade I would not presume that very many people would leave such components stock or even recommend they SHOULD leave them stock. I would 100% recomend a down pipe without question.. But in regards to the rest of the parts the stock intercooler and charge pipe are suprisingly capable and if not abused or damaged can hold under 24psi without much concern.
So my curiosity stems from here.
Full ZZP bolt ons (minus catback) and an intake.. Lets say k&n... Plus a remote hpt tune @93oct... @25psi...(may has well go aggressive we did the bolt ons) Would put you somewhere around 1500$ (I'm not including taxes or shipping).. this will remain the same for both comparisons. Would put you... About 330-340whp 390-400wtq (am I about right?) and obviously in new clutch territory.....
75% of the people this aggressive are also running a bov or a forge bpv and most likely meth.. But we won't include that as it doesn't apply to everyone...

Vs

ZFR6758 plus a 3"downpipe and hpt 93oct @23psi. 2300$ish (no tax or shipping) would put you around Xxxwhp and xxxwtq my guess would be 360whp 360wtq. And a way more useable powerband.And perhaps it wouldn't be anywhere near here...
But obviously in new clutch territory as well.

Lets stay away from E as not everyone has it...

But that's what I am truly curious about how well would it do? It's a stock bolt on. How would it compare... You can always upgrade the rest of those parts in time and keep upping your tune to match.. Personally the latter sounds very appealing to me.. Plus looking 100%stock is a sweet bonus.

I would alike to add I live in +40 to -40degc and have gms1 boosting 20-23 psi all season long and my stock intercooler/upper charge pipe have never given me issues. So it can handle abuse. I'm sure most cracked IC come from stray rocks vs boost and upper charge pipes that have burst likely had defects?

Sorry for the essay but I can't be the only one curious.. It's not like ZZP doesn't have the toys to test this

 

I don't see any problem with it, if you want to try it. I have the stock charge pipes and have had them for 3.5 years on boost levels reaching 24psi. The stock intercooler absolutely has to be replaced. There's just no way around that. The downpipe is restrictive, but you can still make power with it. I currently have my stock downpipe on because I had to get inspected. The quietness of it is so nice that I haven't had the heart to take it back off. I can tell a slight difference in spool time, but it's not a real "seat of the pants" killer.

btw, most of the cracked IC's come in the winter. If you boost when the tanks are still cold, they crack.

 

Exactly. Using good judgement precvents most issues.

I'm not personally wanting to try this as I'm already bolted. I just think it would be a good statistic to have. It would help show the benefits of bolt ons as well. Or prove you shouldn't do it at all because the gains aren't there. (Shouldn't just throw the ZFR and a downpipe on)

 

Why wouldn't you just put all bolt-ons on the car for piece of mind. I don't get why people even bother dealing with factory parts, they suck period put new ones on.

 

I concur^^^^

From personal experience, and from other peoples experiences, these are the best bolt-ons.

K&N intake
ZZP catless downpipe
ZZP intercooler
Forge BPV
Hahn charge-pipes
MPX exhaust

with those, and the ZFR turbo, there would be nothing to worry about other than the clutch/tranny if you tune it over 400whp...Putting a nice turbo on a car that has cheap, stock, supporting parts, is just asking to replace those parts anyways if you ask me...

 

I say again. I agree. The end result would not be keepin all stock parts. But as a jumping off point how would it do just turbo an say a downpipe.
The forge bpv wouldn't be compatible with the ZFR to the best of my knowledge. From everything I have read the Hahn charge pipes are over priced and have a tendency to corode internally.
As for exhaust. Every three inch dp will provide the same flow and every 3" catback will be damn near the same just different sound and perhaps build quality.

And to repeat. Just for comparison purposes... Not because it is recomended or reliable.. But at a "safe" boost level how many whp could the ZFR make with nothing but a downpipe.

 

im thinking it would be 350-360whp...
so yes it would be more than a stock turbo with full bolt-ons and 93 gas

 

We have a customer's car at 380 on similar mods with the smaller 6258 turbo.

 

Who wouldn't want that?
Wouldn't that be easier on the car than the full bolt aggressive tune as well?

 

Simular to which? Sorry

 

Similar to full bolt-ons on the stock turbo is what I believe he's referring to...

 

full bolt-ons and 93 tune usually puts you at 320-330whp and 380-400wtq.
This zfr turbo and no bolt-ons would have higher whp and less wtq than the stock turbo fully loaded.

So in a way, yes its better to just buy the turbo until all the other stuff breaks around it, IF THATS HOW YOU WANNA BE WITH YOUR CAR....

 

Very lightly modded with stock IC. I don't remember the exact mods. I think he had a downpipe and intake.

 

The forge bpv is a direct fit in any efr.

 

Good to know!


And thanks Matt, that's exactly what I was wondering.

Sounds to me like it is almost safer and faster to run a ZFR with a reasonable boost level and a reasonable boost ramp than to just keep getting more aggressive with the stock k04.

Is there any reason it would be harder on stock parts to run a ZFR at 22psi producing less torque and more hp. Than it would to run a k04 on stock parts at 24 psi with more torque and less hp? Wider power band tougher on the valve train perhaps? But the stock Ic and charge pipe are still only seeing 22 psi? Perhaps there's more complicated math than what psi you are at... But tons of people run higher psi than that on stock parts and have no issues. If you don't need to right away. Why spend the money? If it breaks replace it. That's how most roll with the intercoolers anyway..

 

the torque is what is rougher on an engine because it is the slamming instant power