That is a nice graph for a cammed pump gas vs cammed e85 graph, but I was / am under the impression that Matt still has a stock head. This graph shows me nothing on the part I want to order with is a $2,000 dollar head / cam / tune combo , not just a cam. Also I may have missed it but I have not seen one before cam after cam dyno. I saw one with cam / with came dyno changing the type of fuel used but no before and after.

I'm sorry if you do not understand this concept but I like to see the gains before I spend $2,000 dollars. This isn't a 200 dollar intake, this is a major investment not just a simple bolt on. Sorry if this offends you or you do not understand this concept.

Once again I'm sorry if your offended by this post but you will just have to get over it. I am a cobalt owner I don't give a crap about the OP original fight with zzp if he doesn't like zzp he can gtfo. But I am patiently awaiting some comparable dyno's just like people want to see this from like BYT for the P&P of throttle body / Intake.

 

the kid ain't lookin for anything except something to **** and moan about if you don't like it don't buy their product plain and simple so annoying

 

I am a new member, and I tried to do a search for dyno graphs, and has no success.

maybe if a dyno graph showing a ZZP upgraded head w/ stage 1 cams VS. stock head and cams will be a good start, just using 87/91/93 octane (I really don't care what octane).....since most of us are not using e85? I don't care if its a stock turbo or big turbo being used. I don't care if it has stock/modified exhaust, IC, CAI.

I just want the basic ZZP head/cam VS. stock head cams dyno comparisson.....i think as a very interested buyer and potential loyal customer, I kinda deserve to see this for a $2000 upgrade (ZZP head cam package).

Thanks!

 

I'm fresh out of graph paper and #2 pencils. Sorry.

 

The thing is, we don't claim anywhere close to 360. "Approximately 100hp" means that it could add up to 85whp, putting it in the 320s. If for some reason we could not achieve that number, then it just makes the gains from our charge tubes, intercooler, and downpipe even greater.

 

He has an automatic solstice gxp.... His car is "project scarab" by SMG Motoring

I've seen it in person. I was there when the headlights arrived... very nice

lol...

SMG Motoring

 

I just don't understand why I cannot get ONLY the cams, I've already made subtle modifications to the tb, intake mani, and head, It's an absolute WASTE to get a head with the cams, If it requires machined followers or something, by all means provide them with the cams. I'd dig for the reason, but can someone explain it to me why it's a complete head with cams and not components available seperately?

 

We are only limiting the information right now because Scarab is on a mission. It doesn't matter what graph we post right now- he will use it against us. We have dealt with members exactly like Scarab in other markets. We know how they operate. I could have a 428whp stock turbo dyno and it would prove that we falsify dyno numbers. I could have a 398whp dyno and we would be liars because I said we surpassed 400. Below a certain number, then our claims don't add up, so we are deceitful. Remember, he went on and on about how I typed 362, but the graph showed 360. Anyone that understands how Mustang dynos display data could tell you that the number displayed on the screen right after the pull does not take graph smooth into account, so the numbers can vary a little. Of course, most people don't care, but Scarab truly believed that this was proof that we are doing an injustice to the Cobalt community. Examples like this are how I can be sure that there is no chance of benefitting from from posting data. The statement- "Just post the graph and then I will go away." is the one that should crack you up.

 

The current offering is not necessarily permanent. It is just what has been released so far.

 

can you PM me, I'd rather discuss acquisition of cams independently. I can GREATLY benefit from a power adder that doesn't further jeopardize my already high EGTs. I saw a slight drop on EGTs from JUST the LE5 cam. It's all well and good to make power with a head and cam combo, but I have to budget ten times as much money for a season in tires, brakes and maint.

 

my car just arrived at smg this afternoon. She will be spending the week up there. Hope scarab ( the car ) doesn't make any moves on her. She doesnt lay down on the first date...

 

Striking fear in the hearts of vendors everywhere. Muhahahahahahah.

He's on bed rest until the new turbo arrives.

 

Thanks for the compliments. It's a nice change of pace around here.

 

ZZP is the only vendor with LNF cams. We have been testing them and know the potential for gains. We seem to be the only vendor with a decent ported head available. We have a great reputation and are well known for our builds and track times.

If we were to release a product with little or no control over it, it's possible that it would end up in the hands of someone like Scarab. This is a true statement and a true concern. It's why we control our products, how they are sold and used in the initial stages. It's why our twin charged kit was install only for some time.

If we sold the cams separately and they went into a build like Scarab's, it's possible the car would run poorly and he'd blame us despite having many mods and tuning himself. It's possible that a self proclaimed expert tuner would mess a car up and the customer blame our cams. It's easy to imagine a build where someone with an upgraded turbo, ported head and our cams made less than 400WHP and posted here. Any of this would destroy our reputation and future product sales, odds are that the customer would be very unhappy as well.

All these reasons are why we don't offer this package w/o our tune and why we currently aren't offering the cams separately. We need to ensure a good experience where our product's potential is reached and we aren't willing to take any chances. This strategy is what makes ZZP great and we will continue to follow it as long as it continues to keep us in the #1 spot. If you were running a business and #1, would you completely change your strategy?

 

If you think that all of the questions directed at you are due to your reputation then you're sadly mistaken. However a company, that is trying to sell a product based solely on reputation, is opening itself up for questioning when the test results that support the claims haven't been presented. There...I found another way to say it.

I'm not even claiming the fact that the "package" idea is a bad one either. It's just that several of us would like to see the results of your testing that show the gains that could be made. Obviously it doesn't represent every combination of parts that's possible. Trying to make that argument is stupid at best.

Matt normally posts results of his testing with all the variables declared. If anyone were to follow his formula, it would stand to reason that similar results could be had. If not, then an analysis might be done but nobody's going to read a graph and say that the numbers aren't the numbers. That's just ludicrous.

Continuing to bait me is not going to further your cause either. My personal endeavors aren't under scrutiny here as far as I'm aware. I didn't start a thread to discuss my build or the shop I'm working with, instead I have a FB page for people to follow along and add their .02. FWIW, I welcome what anyone has to say about it there.

 

Oh how epic that winded web was. PM OTTP for details on that story

I need more chips

/off topic

 

And we don't feel that we're selling solely based on reputation. We have great products and many dyno's along with information related to our builds showing the gains we've made and high HP dyno's we've done using our cams and our ported head and our tunes. If that's not good enough, don't buy or wait until other posts are made (somehow this thread is all too familiar...twin charge kit comes to mind)

 

You do realize that this statement is a contradiction right? You just tried to sell me on your reputation. But like I've said, your reputation is not in dispute here (unless the product fails to deliver on the claims. That probably wouldn't help.) I think very highly of the work you've done in the past.

Still trying........you're never going to succeed with that. It should be beneath you.

I thought that was what I was doing. Then again, you've made it perfectly clear you're not going to sell to me regardless.

 

I have great respect for ZZP and everything they have done for this car (which seems to be far more then SMG or the OP could ever dream of...)

To the ZZP people, I understand why you would want to defend yourselves against these baseless accusations that he continuously makes, but don't you think at this point you could ignore him and stop feeding the troll? I don't see him swaying anyone's opinions at this point and it seems that all it's doing is needlessly frustrating you guys and keeping you from your actual work. Those of us that trust your name and results will continue to, and those that are somehow being swayed by this guy, well, they probably would never have purchased from you anyways... Anyways, I'll be contacting you all soon about a clutch install and would love to discuss what this new kit could do for me.

Keep on innovating!

 

hey guys im just checking in on this thread to say that ive never had a problem with ZZP. great bunch of people up there!!!! keep up the good work guys!!

 

If the graphs were posted it would be baseless. There are no other accusations being made.

Well said! I gather this is your attempt at leading by example?

 

Congratulations. You've now made 295 posts.

 

Notice how I never said anything to you? That was me ignoring you, and this is me informing you that I will not respond to you or your childish attempts to incite a response from me. It's not ZZP's, or anyone else's fault that you had a less then stellar outcome to modifying your car, so there's no reason to take it out on ZZP.

 

hey projectscarab, congratulations, keep being a jack ass and ur gonna make a lot of friends on here

 

Man, you seem to want to pick a fight with everyone.

ZZP has stated that if you purchase their products and they don't deliver on their promises in gains, they will refund your (when I say your I don't actually mean you ) money. What more could a consumer possibly want?

Different cars with different modifications will produce different power levels (including power curves, peak numbers, etc.) when different modifications are added. ZZP knows that and takes that into account when they offer a consumer an estimation on what kinds of gains will be had when adding their parts. If ZZP fails to deliver, then the consumer gets their money back...I couldn't ask for a better promise.

ZZP is FTW