If they do what I think they do a lot of shops could do it. Someone who took their time on a large manual vert could do it, but it would take less time in a large cnc because there would be much less dial indicator use.

 

the trick is doing that modification without distorting the cylnders

 

Yeah some shops might get confused as to why they need a torque plate on the bottom of a block, and when they're not boring. And I bet a lot of shops wouldnt want to make that torque plate and if they did it would cost more than getting zzp to do it anyways.

 

ZZP's girdle supports the top of the sleeves. They don't use a torque plate on the bottom.

 

Well Now I'm confused. A block girdle is typically located in the oil pan and helps locate the bottom parts of the block, the same way the head helps locate the top parts of the block.

 

lol

a+

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...ort-Block.aspx

look at the block in the pic

 

Certainly Zooomer makes a good presentation here concerning the sleeves versus girdle. A couple of us were looking at the picture of the forged short block trying to understand how the girdle is installed so cleanly to the block. I would (we would) like some more technical information concerning how this girdle is mounted to the block. I understand that it may be proprietary but an example, comparitively speaking, would be great. Matt, Zooomer. Much appreciated.

 

i guess its also known as a block gaurd, i installed one on a friends caliber srt4. it was really easy to install on his, but looking at our motor, i can see it being difficult.

 

Took and enlarged the picture of the ZZP forged block. I can faintly make see the outline of what I think is the girdle and similar to what you have pictured above.

 

Now it makes sense. Its like pinning a block but actually supports the entire sleeve.

 

Don't think too much into it.

WRITE-UP DIY BLOCK FILLING - HondaSwap Forums

Its something we all could do in our own garages. But doing it right is a different story...

 

who will man up n do it for the balt =p

 

Reduced cooling worries me a tad with that. The cylinder head will still be the hottest part of the engine. And LSJ guys have an advantage in the heat department because of the piston squirters. Honestly you cant really loose, a block is getting to be pretty cheap these days, only way you mess up is if, A it F's up your cooling, or B, you cover the water pump hole or any other important water passage. Or dont get all the salt out.

 

our blocks look alot differnt on the water passeges around the sleeves compared to the honda motor..even compared to the caliber srt4 block i posted. only way i would imagine a block gaurd going in there is to machine some of the material out of the way. but what do i know? im not a machinest. just thinking out loud

 

block guard VS sleeves

when I used to boost my b16a engine........I used sleeves not block guard.




with ecotec engines, I will use sleeves as well.


But it would be nice to be englightened more by ZZP with more technical specs.......what are the advantages of their block guards over sleeves.

thanks!

 

I am personally using a sleeved block by BATES

If you want your blocks sleeved, I highly recommend getting DARTON mid-sleeves as well.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE THE MID SLEEVES YOU BETTER HAVE A DAMN GOOD MACHINIST. most of the meat of the block gets cut out for these sleeves to go in since they have a flange on them to close the deck. the cores of our blocks are chilled when cast resulting in a stronger, but more brittle aluminum and they are very hard to machine without cracking the block. i've had a block prepped this way for back up

 

they have to macine the block to accept the girdle and i dont think it will go all the way down in the block the girdle is either epoxied in place or welded in place thru friction or some sort of cold weldingim guessing) regardless zzp has figured it out how to do it without distorting the sleeves

Cold welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Friction welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

ZZP's



Darton's


Stock

 

Those darton sleeves, engine, and engine stand look familiar...

 

zzp not showing =(

 

I see on zzp block, it only has a little hole between each cylinder. Hows that suppose to work when dartons has holes going all the way around the sleeves?

 

for reference:

here's my LNF block.............sleeved by BATES Engineering.

 

this is starting to tickle my pickle....

 

I'm guessing you mean, how can it cool. It's identical to stock. In fact cooling is better than with the Darton sleeve route. The holes in our block match the holes in the head gasket. Additional holes would do nothing as the gasket blocks the rest anyway.

Advantages of ZZP girdle over sleeves?
1. Better cooling
2. Better head gasket sealing on high HP builds
3. Much less chance of install/build error
4. Less cost
5. Far less material removed. Less chance of coolant leaks or block failure.
6. Zero failures to date
7. Lighter. Adds nearly zero weight to the build, sleeves add a few pounds.
8. Can be done reliably on Gen 1 and 2 blocks. Sleeved gen 2 blocks are a time bomb.
9. Longer life due to less cylinder distortion. The top of sleeves in a stock or sleeved block and move around creating additional wear or side skirt loads. Girdling eliminates this giving you better rigidity than stock.

Disadvantages of ZZP girdle over sleeves?
1. Can only be purchased from ZZP
2. Has not been tested beyond 1000 crank HP yet.
3. Isn't the same thing a bunch of people talk about having.

 

Everything you have posted is backed up with facts and illustrations. Although I've been around for quite some time I don't understand what you are referring to as Gen 1 - III. Can you enlighten me?