Over the years, GM's Ecotec line of engines has by and large been seen as nothing more than an economical and reliable underhood offering. But with its "Gen II" revision that debuted with the 2.4L LE5 engine, GM drew upon experience racing the Ecotec engine family and built in strength to handle extra horsepower, with thickness being added to the main bearing bulkheads, cylinder bore walls, and other areas.

LSJ/L61 = Gen I
LE5/LNF = Gen II

 

It's been tossed around that the Gen 2 block is better/stronger but this turns out not to be the case actually. They are just different.

If you look at the picture below, see the 2 arrows facing eachother on the Gen 2 block? That is a point where the block cracked. As reference, you can see where GM attached the support to the sleeve in the blocks (gen 1 block in picture is missing top of the sleeve as it's been cut away for the Darton sleeving. The benefit of supporting the block lower is that the entire sleeve is cooled, the downside is that it's not supported except at the bottom. So if sleeving, a Gen 1 block is much better as you're supported in the center of the sleeve vs. the bottom. If girdling, it doesn't matter as much but the Gen 2 block would probably be best as you're supported both top and bottom.

 

I see what you are saying. Interesting.

This platform has seen a ton of LSJ block failures at the top of the sleeve but not so many LNF.

Any chance we can see a cut-a-way of your engine girdle?

 

zoomer came prepared with guns and ammo on this convo ^_^

 

Here are some more illustrations of what I'm talking about.
It appears at first glance that the Dartons have cooling holes all through them and they promote cooling that is hampered with the ZZP block girdle. This is not true.
Below are two images of a darton sleeve with the head gasket laid on top. You can see that the gasket blocks cooling to the head, save for the small water passages in the gasket. I won't get into why GM does this here but it's for cooling reasons.



Moving on, we have experienced sleeved cars with cooling issues and noticed that they run hotter than stock vehicles. There is also talk about the differences in a Gen 1 and Gen 2 block. Below I have a sleeved Gen 1 block. The areas in blue are where coolant is traveling. Notice how the cooling on the Gen 1 block covers less than 1/2 of the cylinder bore but on the Gen 2 it covers 2/3 of it? This is the increased cooling discussed on the Gen 2 block.
With sleeves you change things a bit tho. The stock sleeve is only 60 thousands thick. The lower part of the cooled sleeve is a total of .220 thick with the top being .300 thick. .240 is aluminum which cools very well. The Darton sleeve is .280 thick of steel which doesn't transfer heat well. This is where some of the increased cylinder wear comes from and why Darton motors run hotter.

This brings us back to the cars Mr. Darton was bragging about and the GM race vehicles. Guess what? They run filled blocks and methanol and only run for seconds at a time. Methanol burns very, very cool. But here we're building street motors, motors where heat is our enemy.


Last, I'd like to point out the massive weight disadvantage. A Darton sleeve weighs 3 pounds 7 ounces. Your going to add 12 pounds to your build, if you're competitive and want a fast car, 12 pounds is going to make a small difference.

 

So Zoomer.....are you stating above that girdling the Gen I block (like I have) won't make much difference? I would just need to sleeve the block with OEM sleeves and upgrade the pistons for slightly over 300hp?

 

Damn I'm glad I've spent large $$$ with ZZP.

You guys are just plain kick ass.

 

Our girdle works well in either block, not sure what I said to impress you otherwise.

 

zoomer, ive messaged you twice and no reponse? im at work and dont have time to call right now

 

Because of your last statement

"If girdling, it doesn't matter as much but the Gen 2 block would probably be best as you're supported both top and bottom."

That is why I asked.......

 

Sorry. That is confusing.
I have some more cut-aways and info. I'll post soon

 

Somewhat.....but thank you.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you've impressed me as far as bringing us info, specs, detailed pictures, explanation of a product and the problems it can give us. Really rare that a vendor gives us so much time like you guys at ZZP.
Still upset that I didn't know you guys before I've purchased my turbo kit sigh sigh sigh
Christian

 

07 LSJs are Gen IIs as well as 06+ 2.4s IIRC

 

07 lsj engines arent gen2

 

But 07+ l61 and LAP are gen II

 

yea so the lsj of that year is still a gen1

 

i think this thread needs to be renamed b/c this has gotten to be so much more than just a question about one company's sleeves

 

It actually turned out to be very informative. Not much information on Bates but very good technical information from Zooomer concerning sleeving the ecotecs.

 

does bates even get on here?

i just want a block i can turn the boost up high and not worry about my sleeves crapping out.

 

mayb

 

Have you broken stock ones yet?

 

no i havent. i guess i lifted the head though since ive spiked 30 lbs a few times and was loosing coolant. but ive seen too many blow sleeves out and i have everything apart, so i figured it would be a good time to upgrade everything

 

the zzp block will do you justice

 

ARP studs, if you lifted the head, you should certainly run them.