Enthusiasts and vendors alike... header testing inside!
08-10-2009, 06:33 AM
#277
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[QUOTE=bulletpound;4200988]
I have the hahn 3". That is the one that will be used throughout this testing phase.
Some people ask because they don't understand what they are asking for. It was kind of open ended the way you asked it. Long story short, look at your maf reading at the top of one of your pulls. Your maf reading is going to be considerably more than a stock ss/sc up to 6500 lets say. And mine will be higher than yours as well.
LOL.... well thank you for a brief lesson in FI. I dont recall asking for that little explanation but at this point I think i have a handle on it. All I did was put up a dyno sheet of my before and after.... that's all. I don't know what I said to deserve the 'lesson' in FI but if your understanding of the math is better than mine, please I'd be interested to see that as well.
Purely for information sake. I have no idea if the bends in my header are different from the OP or not but it didn't seem like any of the bends created a smaller diameter or "choke" point. I also don't know if another make of header would have shown better or worse results, all I have is the before and after data. If his is different or defective in any way that's definetly something to consider before a purchase. Did you contact JBP at all and ask them about the issues you had?
Purely for information sake. I have no idea if the bends in my header are different from the OP or not but it didn't seem like any of the bends created a smaller diameter or "choke" point. I also don't know if another make of header would have shown better or worse results, all I have is the before and after data. If his is different or defective in any way that's definetly something to consider before a purchase. Did you contact JBP at all and ask them about the issues you had?
08-10-2009, 09:53 AM
#279
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To all the people saying the test was whack...
Funny how when he puts on a real header... with the original tune... no knock, no afr fluctuations...
Im not sure if your trying to be funny... but... LOLOLOL its not working. We understand, you have a dyno sheet.. thanks... Now were trying to pay attention to the educational stuff about this header testing, so please... I dont care about your feelings, No one else does either.. Keep the sarcasm to yourself... If you have a problem, make another thread about it...
BTW... have you ever tried to get a hold of that damn company?
Funny how when he puts on a real header... with the original tune... no knock, no afr fluctuations...
LOL.... well thank you for a brief lesson in FI. I dont recall asking for that little explanation but at this point I think i have a handle on it. All I did was put up a dyno sheet of my before and after.... that's all. I don't know what I said to deserve the 'lesson' in FI but if your understanding of the math is better than mine, please I'd be interested to see that as well.
Purely for information sake. I have no idea if the bends in my header are different from the OP or not but it didn't seem like any of the bends created a smaller diameter or "choke" point. I also don't know if another make of header would have shown better or worse results, all I have is the before and after data. If his is different or defective in any way that's definetly something to consider before a purchase. Did you contact JBP at all and ask them about the issues you had?
Purely for information sake. I have no idea if the bends in my header are different from the OP or not but it didn't seem like any of the bends created a smaller diameter or "choke" point. I also don't know if another make of header would have shown better or worse results, all I have is the before and after data. If his is different or defective in any way that's definetly something to consider before a purchase. Did you contact JBP at all and ask them about the issues you had?
BTW... have you ever tried to get a hold of that damn company?
Last edited by ShortStack; 08-10-2009 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
08-10-2009, 11:04 AM
#280
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Cool, good to see the pics of the header, yes it looks like you recieved a bad header, no excuse for that ****. My header looks nothing like that at all.
First Domin8 this "tool" never made such claim about an m62 and LS4tb. I never called any tuner out or ****, I said the tune is whak, in all my years I have yet to see a header cause an AFR to change from pull to pull, especially when before the meth problem he drove the car for a week and there is no mention of this problem anywhere!!. Reading and you dont get along, YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE. Second, I am not calling out death, maybe you should continue to read my posts I believe I applauded what he is doing. You guys want to bitch because someone is being critical of the information? Get a life and learn to think for yourselves, followers. Short stack, call the F1 teams and give them your straw theory, then the GT40 engineers etc.
First Domin8 this "tool" never made such claim about an m62 and LS4tb. I never called any tuner out or ****, I said the tune is whak, in all my years I have yet to see a header cause an AFR to change from pull to pull, especially when before the meth problem he drove the car for a week and there is no mention of this problem anywhere!!. Reading and you dont get along, YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE. Second, I am not calling out death, maybe you should continue to read my posts I believe I applauded what he is doing. You guys want to bitch because someone is being critical of the information? Get a life and learn to think for yourselves, followers. Short stack, call the F1 teams and give them your straw theory, then the GT40 engineers etc.
Joe and I went through things again, looking for something that would stick out as a red flag, but nothing was there. The only answer for getting the car to run smooth with that header was to pull timing. And after 6 degrees for most of the area of the scan representing PE, it finally ran without issues. We pulled the valve cover to look and check for a broken valve or spring, since 52 horsepower being lost from one mod change is unbelievable, really.
After the dyno on saturday, it was run four times, three times back to back but the data was lost when it was transferred to a thumbstick. We had to strap it up again and do another to make sure that we at least had something. On the fourth pull, the dyno had a noticeable hiccup right about 5500 rpm, and some on here might not understand why there would be a break in the dyno sheet. I can post it though, on request if need be. But through the runs, the horsepower figures were within 7hp of each other. So at least I know the car doesn't heatsoak much, and the meth is working again.
Pulling the header saturday after the dyno spoke volumes though, where 3 of the 4 primaries was making contact with each other. I have the neutral balance shafts in, and the rotated mounts from ottp, both things that could be contributing to the great sensitivity noticed only with this header.
To answer another one of your questions, the afr would almost change on it's own. the car liked to run lean and stay lean at idle. Now with the 60's, it's a common issue that I deal with everyday, but normally the car bobs between 13.7 and 16.0. With the JBP header, the car would go between 14.5 and 17.2, occasionally staying lean for a number of seconds. I didn't figure it as a big deal, since it's not going to hurt the car being lean at a momentary idle. Also, it's kind of hard to drive a car ***** out when you can be heard from 3 miles away..., no kidding.
The jbp header, coupled with a gutted cti downpipe, and a 3" hahn exhaust could be heard by my friend who was standing outside 5 minutes before I got back to my house. I also managed to get a noise violation summons for making too much noise at 30 mph. The sound was very aggravating. Some say it sounded like a mix between a scooby and an exotic. Well, mine sounded like a mix between a scooby and a harley davidson. It wasn't pleasant.
You and I have common goals to meet, and all this blew up because of a bad product. The guys in my area like domin8 don't nut swing, they don't want someone to ruin this by talking out of their ass. I know you didn't come in here to do that, and I'm a humble person that just wants to know the truth. That's why I'm using my car to do it and not someone elses. This thread needs to continue on and your input is appreciated. I'll be getting to you through pm. I got yours yesterday.
08-10-2009, 11:14 AM
#281
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all i have to say is everyone who bought jbp got robbed and now want to sell it for like $250 or someting cheap because no one wants it now. also once again YOUR JACKED AS ****! lol
08-10-2009, 11:51 AM
#283
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But really, seven months on a ship will force you to do only a handful of things. I chose to workout. And thank you for the props.
The stock and hahn headers are close, with the hahn having smaller primaries. Vibrant and CIA are comparable, but the vibrant has a smaller collector than the cia.
08-10-2009, 12:39 PM
#285
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Have you considered sending your pacesetter out here if I can't get anyone else to get onboard with one?
08-10-2009, 12:47 PM
#286
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I'm in Germany, the car is in Nebraska. I'd have to get my friend to take it off the car, wouldn't be hard though, just remove a couple bolts where it connects to the resonator. The head is back at the machine shop for more port work and the cams are at web cams for custom hardweld.
I'll talk to him and see if he's up for that. You know how much it would cost to ship a header and dp together in a long box?
I'll talk to him and see if he's up for that. You know how much it would cost to ship a header and dp together in a long box?
08-10-2009, 12:56 PM
#287
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I don't know, but I can try to average some numbers and let you know. There's got to be someone on here that can provide their setup. At least that's what I'm hoping. I'm starting to believe that a 3" exhaust might not necessarily be needed for most applications except the extreme.
08-10-2009, 02:17 PM
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Yes, it's all welded together in One Piece. I wasn't really trying to target anything, just trying to optimize what I had. I bought the header for 40 bucks. It's actually for the 2.2 cavy. And the downpipe is custom, free.
Thing is, it flows really well, more than the stock header/dp that's for sure. So I would guess that you should put down more than your previous dyno on the stock setup.
Thing is, it flows really well, more than the stock header/dp that's for sure. So I would guess that you should put down more than your previous dyno on the stock setup.
08-10-2009, 04:10 PM
#292
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I think m2race hogs those heads out plenty, if you wanted more out of the head, send it to someone that will work the bowls behind the valves a little more. That's where the biggest gains are, that and the valve seat.
Just porting out the ports themselves won't do nearly as much. It's all about velocity.
Just porting out the ports themselves won't do nearly as much. It's all about velocity.
08-10-2009, 04:18 PM
#294
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let me ask you this, do you have a comparison at all to before the head was ported and after?
Cause my head flowed slightly less than the m2race head, although much higher velocity I'm sure, but that was my only change as far as power goes at one point and the difference was very significant.
Cause my head flowed slightly less than the m2race head, although much higher velocity I'm sure, but that was my only change as far as power goes at one point and the difference was very significant.
08-10-2009, 04:24 PM
#295
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well, after swapping from the tvs to the m62, I gained 25 hp from the same tune without changing anything. The numbers were 287whp/262wtq as opposed to 262whp/237wtq on the m62. After switching to the ported head and correcting minor afr errors, that produced the stock header numbers, 312whp/247wtq. This is all pretty much from the same tune, and I think that 25hp just from installation is pretty reasonable.
08-10-2009, 04:29 PM
#296
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So you went from 262/237 with the m62 stock head, to 287/262 with the m62 ported head, to 312/247 with the TVS ported head, right?
The real gain can be seen when you add all that airflow to the mix from the TVS. Also, I can see why your tq numbers drop.
The real gain can be seen when you add all that airflow to the mix from the TVS. Also, I can see why your tq numbers drop.
08-10-2009, 04:38 PM
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ah, I see now. my bad, either way my conclusion remains the same. I see why you lost tq. It's the velocity of that port job on your head. That is if everything else is the same, as in you didn't change anything.
