View Poll Results: Those who have it. Which is better?
Stage 1 with smaller pulley
18
39.13%
stage 2
28
60.87%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
GM Stage 1/2 Thread: Merged
LSX RWD S/C conversion
iTrader: (2)
Joined: 03-25-05
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 277
From: Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
yes stink means good
the point of the 250 was that 3 weeks ago on same machine it said 234
Is it worth the money - well I am not removing it and I will get it tested again. Also I believe there is room for tuning and I have bought a second pcm which is also being reflashed for stage 2 and then sent to a reprogrammer to break the code so we can all get custom tunes.
Let me get together with other SS\SC in my area(soon) and they can make there opinions of the value of this kit.
the point of the 250 was that 3 weeks ago on same machine it said 234
Is it worth the money - well I am not removing it and I will get it tested again. Also I believe there is room for tuning and I have bought a second pcm which is also being reflashed for stage 2 and then sent to a reprogrammer to break the code so we can all get custom tunes.
Let me get together with other SS\SC in my area(soon) and they can make there opinions of the value of this kit.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-28-05
Posts: 4,194
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, DE
You can't really ever get a true before/after dyno unless you install the modification right after the baseline dyno, also your car should be at the same exact temperature as it was the original dyno. Then you must take an average of 3 dynos because we all know they always pull differently.
I don't belive this, 3 lbs of boost more will yield more than 16hp come on guys get real....
I don't belive this, 3 lbs of boost more will yield more than 16hp come on guys get real....
Member
Joined: 07-24-05
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
From: Ellicott city, MD
Originally Posted by Mercury
You can't really ever get a true before/after dyno unless you install the modification right after the baseline dyno, also your car should be at the same exact temperature as it was the original dyno. Then you must take an average of 3 dynos because we all know they always pull differently.
I don't belive this, 3 lbs of boost more will yield more than 16hp come on guys get real....
I don't belive this, 3 lbs of boost more will yield more than 16hp come on guys get real....
i understand you want to be as accurate as possible but i think that is just over board.
People shouldn't care about a 0-5hp difference and thats all you will ever seen on a normal basis using the a dyno on differents days, with slightly different temperatures.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-27-05
Posts: 1,780
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From: Weston, FL
Originally Posted by max_boost
I don't care what it says on the chart. The dyno operater didn't change his comments from the first run that was done on 4/4/06 to the runs that were done today. The power ranges from 202-226 but they all say "K&N filter and header." Did you even read the thread? Redline got the S2 installed on 4/6 and the dyno runs were done on 4/7
Banned
Joined: 03-02-06
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 0
From: Cali
Originally Posted by Black06ss/sc
Lets See:
Helpful Information = 0 ftlbs.
Actual Info , Pix or even proof you own a car = 0 hp.
Convinced you are always right = 0 mph.
You Leaving this thread / forum = Priceless
How about those stage kits for datsuns...... Troll > wasey
...(at least trolls entertain)
At least we have a tester and the numbers will get straightened out
I think I will wait for a wider assortment of Dyno slips before I pass judgement.
Also the main thing for many People is the reflash everything else you can buy aftermarket.
......Waiting on PCM comparison .....someone get cracking.
Helpful Information = 0 ftlbs.
Actual Info , Pix or even proof you own a car = 0 hp.
Convinced you are always right = 0 mph.
You Leaving this thread / forum = Priceless
How about those stage kits for datsuns...... Troll > wasey
...(at least trolls entertain)At least we have a tester and the numbers will get straightened out
I think I will wait for a wider assortment of Dyno slips before I pass judgement.
Also the main thing for many People is the reflash everything else you can buy aftermarket.
......Waiting on PCM comparison .....someone get cracking.
I can show you quite a few threads where I have helped out members(here is one recently https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show....php?t=16741 ) . If you think you know who I am then you know what I drive. Show me a thread where I was wrong, you can't.
Chevy has a stage kit for Datsuns it's called SBC swap and is faster then anything you will ever own.
New Member
Joined: 03-17-06
Posts: 91
Likes: 2
From: Northwest
Originally Posted by alleycat58
YOU CAN'T FEEL A MATHEMATICAL EQUATION!!!!!!!!
Same way you can't feel speed. You feel acceleration. Horsepower is a purely mathematical function, it does not exist as a simple entity. It is a function of torque. If you took our car and did nothing but raise the rev limiter, allowing it to produce a higher top-end horsepower but not doing anything to the torque curve (since it would show no further increase in torque), the car would not feel faster because torque is all that you are feeling, you cannot physically feel horsepower. Hell you cannot even measure horsepower on a dyno. You can only measure torque, the computer then translates that into horsepower using a mathematical function involving engine RPMs...
Same way you can't feel speed. You feel acceleration. Horsepower is a purely mathematical function, it does not exist as a simple entity. It is a function of torque. If you took our car and did nothing but raise the rev limiter, allowing it to produce a higher top-end horsepower but not doing anything to the torque curve (since it would show no further increase in torque), the car would not feel faster because torque is all that you are feeling, you cannot physically feel horsepower. Hell you cannot even measure horsepower on a dyno. You can only measure torque, the computer then translates that into horsepower using a mathematical function involving engine RPMs...
HTH
Doc
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Joined: 03-02-06
Posts: 1,187
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From: Cali
Originally Posted by mrdoc442
New to this forum-member of several others-LS1/LS2 GTO.com, Quadfourm etc. Old school muscle car enthusiast/drag racer-71 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 Super Gas car-Also into 2005 GTO (collector) and currently own a 2006 Sunburst Orange Metallic Cobalt SS S/C daily driver. Last daily driver was a 1991 Oldsmobile Calais Quad 442. The following definition is found in my 2005 GTO factory literature: "Torque is the force that delivers acceleration. Horsepower allows a vehicle to sustain speed."
HTH
Doc
HTH
Doc
Banned
Joined: 10-30-05
Posts: 7,752
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From: in a house
Originally Posted by ballerSS
Guys, guys, GM has said all along that it isn't about PEAK HP. They even proved it. Remember the 800 HP Skyline GTR they were up against in the Tuner Transformation Time Attack Challenge? They weren't scared - and they killed it.
Think of how your stock SS/SC really pulls like a beast at 4500 rpm + in 2nd. Imaging having that same pull at 3000 rpm all the way up to 7000! It's not about how high the line in the graph goes, it's about how much area under that line. I wouldn't care if peak hp wasn't increased at all if it reached it at a much lower RPM and then maintained it through redline.
Think of how your stock SS/SC really pulls like a beast at 4500 rpm + in 2nd. Imaging having that same pull at 3000 rpm all the way up to 7000! It's not about how high the line in the graph goes, it's about how much area under that line. I wouldn't care if peak hp wasn't increased at all if it reached it at a much lower RPM and then maintained it through redline.
Good point, also keep in mind that when shifting gears the RPMS tend to drop below the 4K range (Peak Torque) so if you have a higher RPM rev limiter, you can shift into a higher rev during spirited runs. I remember reading Sports Car Compact write-up on the Ion Redline, they commented how the rev limiter didn't allow the engine to be kept above 4K while shifting which kept the engine below its "sweet spot". Would be nice if the rev limiter were raised higher, but even the few RPMs they gave us is going to help shave the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-14-05
Posts: 4,425
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From: www.mp5t.com
Originally Posted by r_fiorda49
Ok well...here's my theory:
SO...technically...after the reflash wouldnt the PCM be thinking that the engine is running stock + stage 2? Maybe it needs time to readjust to the other bolt-ons before we'll see anything major...
SO...technically...after the reflash wouldnt the PCM be thinking that the engine is running stock + stage 2? Maybe it needs time to readjust to the other bolt-ons before we'll see anything major...
Senior Member
Joined: 06-04-05
Posts: 2,040
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From: LongIsland
Originally Posted by cobss187
im tellin you..... what i think probably happened is that the idiots at chevy prob didnt do the reflash and just threw the mods on there... ********
Moderator Alumni
Joined: 08-26-04
Posts: 4,944
Likes: 2
From: RTP, NC
Originally Posted by Brian MP5T
No, the point of the reflash it to change the ECUs base map that it modifies and allow some tweaking of others. there is no reason to think that it could take time to learn. It would be instantly tuned to within 5% of the final tolerances.
Pretty sure the fuel trims are reset with a reflash, this isn't really something that affect WOT performance though.
Banned
Joined: 05-12-05
Posts: 2,698
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From: Nebraska
Wow this thread went from worthless to a complete waste of space.
What's with all of the fell of TQ vs HP? I love these arguments but I'll pass.
My daily driver is a 2001 Z24 with 150HP and 150FtLbs and I had a 1992 Achieva SCX W41 with 190HP and 170FtLbs and now owning my SS/SC so I have had a million TQ vs HP arguments.
What's with all of the fell of TQ vs HP? I love these arguments but I'll pass.
My daily driver is a 2001 Z24 with 150HP and 150FtLbs and I had a 1992 Achieva SCX W41 with 190HP and 170FtLbs and now owning my SS/SC so I have had a million TQ vs HP arguments.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-14-05
Posts: 4,425
Likes: 0
From: www.mp5t.com
Originally Posted by codyss
Wow this thread went from worthless to a complete waste of space.
What's with all of the fell of TQ vs HP? I love these arguments but I'll pass.
My daily driver is a 2001 Z24 with 150HP and 150FtLbs and I had a 1992 Achieva SCX W41 with 190HP and 170FtLbs and now owning my SS/SC so I have had a million TQ vs HP arguments.
What's with all of the fell of TQ vs HP? I love these arguments but I'll pass.
My daily driver is a 2001 Z24 with 150HP and 150FtLbs and I had a 1992 Achieva SCX W41 with 190HP and 170FtLbs and now owning my SS/SC so I have had a million TQ vs HP arguments.
Ass....
Just got outta bed
I don't really care for dynos much and traditonally run at the track to tell me real world gain. To put other people on these forums at ease I have an appointment at noon to get a few dyno pulls done. Results on a dyno don't mean squat to me and simply put, it is only meant as a means to tune from your last run to see what results you last mod got you. Case in point.....a bone stock Cobalt (Player1) put down 206 hp and another Cobalt (ArrivalBlue) put down 236 hp w/CAI. Something is seriously screwed up with that. From what I have seen, there are too many variables to have a dyno be the end all of peformance measurement. JMHO
Be back later with some "numbers".
I don't really care for dynos much and traditonally run at the track to tell me real world gain. To put other people on these forums at ease I have an appointment at noon to get a few dyno pulls done. Results on a dyno don't mean squat to me and simply put, it is only meant as a means to tune from your last run to see what results you last mod got you. Case in point.....a bone stock Cobalt (Player1) put down 206 hp and another Cobalt (ArrivalBlue) put down 236 hp w/CAI. Something is seriously screwed up with that. From what I have seen, there are too many variables to have a dyno be the end all of peformance measurement. JMHO Be back later with some "numbers".
Senior Member
Joined: 11-14-05
Posts: 4,425
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From: www.mp5t.com
Originally Posted by Cobalt_Supercharged
Forget dynos, they mean nothing in the real world. Get some before and after track times, whether 1/4 or road course.
Yeah, that's why Top Fuel Drag Cars aren't tuned on a Dyno... Cause they don't mean anything..
Originally Posted by Brian MP5T
Yeah, that's why Top Fuel Drag Cars aren't tuned on a Dyno... Cause they don't mean anything..
New Member
Joined: 07-14-05
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: michigan
Originally Posted by Brian MP5T
Yeah, that's why Top Fuel Drag Cars aren't tuned on a Dyno... Cause they don't mean anything..
Senior Member
Joined: 06-14-05
Posts: 918
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by ballerSS
Guys, guys, GM has said all along that it isn't about PEAK HP. They even proved it. Remember the 800 HP Skyline GTR they were up against in the Tuner Transformation Time Attack Challenge? They weren't scared - and they killed it.
Think of how your stock SS/SC really pulls like a beast at 4500 rpm + in 2nd. Imaging having that same pull at 3000 rpm all the way up to 7000! It's not about how high the line in the graph goes, it's about how much area under that line. I wouldn't care if peak hp wasn't increased at all if it reached it at a much lower RPM and then maintained it through redline.
Think of how your stock SS/SC really pulls like a beast at 4500 rpm + in 2nd. Imaging having that same pull at 3000 rpm all the way up to 7000! It's not about how high the line in the graph goes, it's about how much area under that line. I wouldn't care if peak hp wasn't increased at all if it reached it at a much lower RPM and then maintained it through redline.
I wanna see some 1/4 runs...
