Ok. First off, I would like to say that I am not an Area47 nut swinger like many people on this site. But I will bow down to his tunning abilities. Take a look at the BLUE line in this chart. It is his car with the Eaton M62 and STOCK cams.



Notice how he DOES not make more power past 6500 rpms.

Why do you think that is? He has all the bolt ons and is making big power. About 280whp at 6500rpms!

Do you think he does not want to make more power past 7k?
Do you think he does not know how to make more power past 7K?

I don't know the term for it but there is a reason his peak hp is at 6500 and its not because he does not want more power or he does not know how to tune.

Its just the way the LSJ makes power with M62 and stock cams. That is the way it is.

Keep in mind:

Every dyno is different. Yes there are a couple of dyno graph in here that show people making peak hp at 6700 or 6800 rpms. Even one that might show peak hp at 6900.

But the majority of dyno graphs from CSS and RLF shows peak hp at 6500 or 6600. And the majority of those are on dynojets which are proven to give the most consistent numbers.

So, if you want to make peak hp at 7,000rpms change your cams or change your power adder.

 

I see and understand exactly what you are talkin about.... I never said I was making PEAK HP above 7000 (I know you're not referring to me)....
I was just saying my motor still pulls strong all the way to 7500 especially in the lower 3 gears.... I actually don't know if I run to my redline above 2nd gear. I probably shift at 7k in 3rd..... by then I'm well over the speed limit and have never tried to pull to 7k in 4th or 5th.
but the extra RPM's certainly help in 1st and 2nd

 

So you would agree that I made peak whp at about 7k rpms and I am a fluke? correct

 

Wow, Area47 tuned his car well. He is the mythical "Stig" of CobaltSS.net! Ebristol, I appreciate your helpful comments throughout this thread. Thanks!
Eric (aka Micro)

 

A lot of the reason the LSJ doesn't usually make peak power past 6500 rpm, is #1 the head freakin sucks, the exhaust ports make it like trying to exhale hard through a straw, and #2 most of the time the blower is being spun so fast, that past 6500 rpm its so far out of its efficiency range, its simply can't make more power... Mostly the head though. With a stock pulley and a good tune, peak power can be made at 7000 rpm. With a ported head, it can make power at an even higher rpm.

 

Your right llama, the LSJ DOES make power past 6500 rpms.

Here's the dyno chart from my "SS/SC vs. SS/T" comparo test:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/images-video-todays-stage-2-sc-vs-ss-t-dyno-face-off-56k-think-again-118151/


Power increases right off the end of the chart (6800 rpms) to 7k.

Something is wrong if a person's Stage 2 LSJ doesn't make power all the way to 7k ...

 

If a premium member could post this picture in this thread, I would appreciate it. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/images/s1dyno_large.jpg
This graph clearly shows how close GM Stage 1 is to stock. One thing I did notice though from their graph is that the stock dyno graph went to about 220 hp (not the 205 hp shown in the caption for stock hp).

Yea, I guess we have similar taste in cars.

What? I don't understand.

Yea, from the look of their dyno plots, it seems to make much more power.

 

Here you go (enlarged) ...



Stock SC makes power to around 6,250 rpms, then drops off.

Stage 1 (like Stage 2) makes power right to 7,000 rpms.

 

Thanks for posting the graph!

 

what kind of dyno were you on?.....

 

OK here is my dyno run (on a dynojet) GMPP stage 1, GMPP honed exh. manifold, GMPP performance exhaust and airbox mod..... before the tune!!!

I haven't looked at this in a while, I believe the dyno was NOT calibrated (dyno day event and the cobalts when up right after a RWD car), they never ran it all the way to 7k.... but my peak HP is at 6700-6800 rpms.... odd that the 2 runs show a 100 rpm difference in the peak HP....

the temp was 92 degrees
there were 3 of us there that day.... stock 07, stage 1 06 (me) and stage 2+ 05..... if I remember correctly the 07 put down 215, I put down 225 and the stg 2+ put down 235 and we figured the dyno was about 10HP low.... that would have put my HP at 235, not exactly the 32 HP they promise...... remember I have the exh and airbox mod...


w/ my new custom tune and 7500 redline.... I know it pulls alot stronger than during this dyno run, I'd be willing to bet my peak HP now is right about 7k rpms...

 

Thanks for posting your Stage 1 Dyno run! This helps a lot.

 

I contacted Crate Engine Depot to see if I could get a refund for the GM Stage 1 since it did not make the power GM advertises.

Here is the message I sent them:
I purchased the GM Stage 1 upgrade order number #*****. I took my car to the dyno before and after the install and determined that the car only made 3 hp after the Stage 1 upgrade. This was extremenly disappointing considering GM claims a gain of 30 HP over stock. I am requesting that I be reimbursed for the cost of this upgrade. I would like to return the fuel injectors and be given a full refund. Please let me know how to proceed. I have video proof if needed.

Crate Engine Depot responded and this is what they said:
Hello Eric,
I would have to contact GM as to how to proceed with your situation. I will contact them this next week. I do have a question, Was the dyno done the same day before and after the install? Was the computer reflashed properly, it sounds to me that may be the problem.
These are questions GM will be asking me.
_________

I replied to Crate Engine Depot with this message:
The reflash was done properly by a GM tech according to the instructions. The rpm limit increased to 7,000 rpm like advertized, so we know that the correct tune was installed. The dyno tests were done on the same dyno at the same temperature, but were not done on the same day.

Thanks for reviewing this.
Eric
__________________
Crate Engine Depot then sent me this message:
Eric,
I have been in contact with GM, they would like to review your dyno results.
Thanks
________________
I replied with this message:
Here is the video of the dyno results for the GM Stage 1 vs stock. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/G...ock_634271.htm

Here are the 3 dyno runs when my car was bone stock.
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/S...no_1013558.htm

Here are the 3 stock dyno runs vs the 3 GM Stage 1 dyno runs all on one graph.
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/A...pg_1598160.htm

Here are just the GM stage 1 graphs
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/G...pg_1598161.htm

Here is the best stock graph vs the best GM stage 1 graph.
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/S...pg_1598162.htm

Here is the GM Stage 1 graph
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/S...MP_1602508.htm

Thanks for contacting GM about this.
Eric
____________________
Crate Engine Depot contacted GM and forwarded me GM's message shown here:
Eric, I sent your files to GM and received this message, I have also included GM’s dyno results below.
“Tom, I have reviewed the results and watched the video. It generates a few questions

The HP numbers they are reporting... Are the Engine fly wheel HP or Vehicle wheel HP? The information sent shows that he is not seeing the gains at the higher RPM's there could be a wheel slip issue with the dyno. Also, Coolant and especially Intercooler temperature is critical to the numbers. Also, What was the barometer when each test was done. If it was a bright sunny day on one test and a raining day on the other some of the difference could be due to barometer. That being said if they were run the same then he should see a difference. Usually at high end it is an air flow problem. It looks like he may not be getting air flow. Compare his curves vs the curves I sent you.”
http://photos.streetfire.net/photo/g...ck_1627369.htm
”Tom, The HP increase is over the production published power. I have heard of stock LSJ's Pulling in to the low 220's and there for the power increase would look like it was less. The claim is for 236 engine HP corrected to SAE standards, production SAE test was 205. So, I would need to see his numbers to see if he is getting 236. The kit will not increase +30 stacked onto other mods. With Stage 1 you get the higher engine RPM and the higher fueling to support the higher RPM (and to support stage 2 & stage 3 modifications). Most of the HP increase comes from the higher RPM. Also from the attached graph you can see the Stage 1 peak HP occurred at 6800 rpm where the production peak power occurred at 5600 to 6400 rpm. At 5600 rpm the stage 1 is 13 HP higher by my data and at 6000 it is 23 HP higher than production. At 6400 RPM it is 30 HP higher. It all depends on his starting point. This kit will not add 30 hp to something already higher than 205.

Also, Chassis dyno's are usually not corrected for temperature and humidity and barometer like these results so day to day results can very dramatically due to temperature, humidity and barometer. “

 

nice correspondence to GM.... but something is definitely wrong w/ something.... I don't recall you saying or anyone asking... does the car feel faster?
if you looked at my dyno #'s.... even if there was 10 extra HP missing (which would have me at 235 HP), with the air box mod, exh mani and exhaust I would have expected at least 240 HP...
but, in driving my car it is a lot faster!

keep us tuned in to what happens

good luck

 

My car feels a little bit faster. The GM rep seemed to suggest that my dyno curves for Stage 1 indicate an air-flow problem. I am guessing that the stock exhaust manifold is restricting the power at higher rpms. You may have noticed the bigger power gains because you have the honed manifold.

 

I just stumbled on this thread and didn't feel like reading all the previous posts, but has anyone pointed out that GM's rating on the stock SS/SC is 205 bhp @ 5600 rpm, and their stage 1 rating is 236 bhp @ 6800 rpm?

Key note - stock car does not make peak power at 5600 rpm, despite the rating. Peak power is made at or near the redline (6500), leading to all the high dyno measurements. So yes, stage 1 is a hoax if you expect an extra 30 horses, however the extra rpm *does* net you a few extra ponies, and more importantly, gets you in your power band much sooner after shifting.

To the OP, I highly suggest you grab a stage 2 pulley and belt from someone. The bump in torque is much more noticeable.

 

I would love to have a smaller pulley, but it would change my eligibility for the G-stock class in autocross racing. I may end up doing it anyway and racing in a different class if I can't get a refund. The OTTP Stage 1 kit seems like a much better deal than the GM stage 1 kit and they are about the same price.

 

dunno if this was mentioned but did you change spark plugs yet? while I know you will not 'gain' horsepower by doing this but originally after getting stage 2 my car while faster seemed sluggish overall until I went 1 range colder. The other thing to consider is you have the bad tune yes there was a bad tune which in the past was very well known to us here I originally reported on it along with pictures, try and find out which one you have from the tech guy, https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lsj-performance-tech-47/gm-stage-update-32859/

 

did you by any chance change gas, or even worse use a lower grade than recommended???


if not then check your fuses.

 

My god , the newbs in this thread it took the man 700 pages to explain that if your car is making 250whp it starts making it at 6500 rpm and stays that way unit 7k or whatever you shift at on stock cams.

 

No, I have not changed the spark plugs. The "bad-tune" thread was helpful. I knew about that thread when I had the stage 1 tune flashed onto my ECU. The GM tech made sure that I had the most updated reflash possible for Stage 1.

 

You do realize the stage 1and 2 tunes are the same? There is just one tune .

 

^ right you are sir .... not many people know this / understand this.

 

Yes, I knew that.

 

Just checking , the wording of a previous post made me wonder ,so i figured i'd ask.