hell GM even used air to water on the phase 5 cobalt intake manifold

 

Because they have to because of the way they designed their twincharge kit. After the turbo is spooled (or I should say before the turbo is completely spooled) they by pass the supercharger by opening the Supercharger by pass valve. If the charge air was not cooled by an air to air intercooler the hot air would enter the engine uncooled.

Don't believe me? Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14MaYSMPc1c

Notice what happens when the by-pass valve opens.

 

GM also realized that having 4 "valleys" of laminovas in the OE IM was not enough to cool the compressed air, hence why they created the 2pass, and recommended option B.

I don't think you give me enough credit. I understand that compressed air needs to be cooled. Could ZZP have used another method for cooling the turbo heated air? Yes. Did they have to circulate the air to the supercharger intake? No. As you said, they designed it that way. This isn't worth getting all pissy over.

 

Not really. The 4 pass design is fine for the stock pulley.

GM recommends the dual pass end plate for Stage 2 and Stage 3.

 

Regardless, you are arguing symantics. We just said the same thing, you were just more detailed. This is a thread where people are talking about modding their cars. It should be assumed that the majority, if not all, of the people in this thread have a smaller pulley installed than the stocker.

 

that is correct. GM also knew that the option B solution BY ITSELF gave superior performance for the existing 4 pass but would not/could not productionise it...but whatever this thread was about a new inlet manifold that picked up where rebel stopped and it has proven tobe a NON starter. So sad too bad....

 

Sorry if I sound snippy.

But you are making broad statements that I don't want other people to repeat. It causes confusion and its how this forum untruths get spread.

What you said about the ZZP twincharge kit made me believe you had no idea how it worked. Because if you knew how it worked you would not have said what you said.

Same thing with what you said about the GM dual pass endplate. The dual pass endplate did not come out until the Stage 2 and Stage 3 kits where released. GM knew before they released the Stage 2 and Stage 3 kit that their was cooling benefits from a dual pass endplate. Heck they even worked on a single pass IM. But found that the 4 pass was fine for the boost levels created by the stock pulley.

When they released the S2 and S3 additional cooling was needed.

I just want to clear up any misconceptions you may have created to people reading your posts.

I recommend that everyone listen to everything this guy says. He is one smart cookie!

Even if he is from lol

 

I was one of the first to install the 2pass, and spent a week running around trying to find all the hardware needed for option B because nobody had a kit for it at the time. I don't do any mods on my cars until I have researched them. You are correct, your statement was more clear than mine. In fact, it was almost a direct quote from the FaQ on CED's website (can't find it now, but read it way back when I did the 2pass). Just like the 2pass, I have been doing lots of research on the ZZP twincharge setup. I'm looking at going that direction. I'm also trying to see how I get it over the 500whp mark.

As for qwikredline, I agree. He is one of the more knowledgable people on the forum.

 

i want an imaginary IM that uses 10 laminova cores, two rows in series of 5 cores running in parallel. Ultimate cooling and ultimate airflow
of course, itll never happen

 

so is this a phail now, since its air to air.

 

i dont think a readily avalible air/air unit is a complete fail.

is it a modified stock manifold, or is it a new designed manifold specificly for air/air???

 

No suck thing as a stock manifold as the ld9 never had a m62 kit...they were given a weakass m45 .75l blower, which barely made what? 5psi. So unlike OEM we did not chop up a m45 to make a non intercooler manifold. This manifold is built from the ground up. All in house.

 

im familiar with the 2.4 twin cam blower setup. i thought we were talking about an ecotec version, didnt realize we were still discussing 2.4.

 

wanna put money on it?

 

Freakta, how are the IAT's when the car is sitting after a pull? You have no more flow through the Intercooler, that is where I can see it being a problem not having the air-water setup with attleast the stock h/e.

Was there pictures posted of this new IM yet?

 

we havnt had any time to put the second mani on yet...

there is no heat soak so the temps gp right back down to ambient well within a min or two... directly after the run you can put your hand on the left side of the intercooler and it is hot but the right side feels like a cold beer. then in a min you can touch both sides without issue.

im going to see if i can datalog a run down the street and post it up on my thread. it should show temps get lower the faster you drive

 

interesting.. would like to see that data.

 

So how much is this going to cost as a full kit including the IC? $1500-2000?

 

i'd hope not if that was the case it shouldnt be A/A

 

Doesnt seem worth it if it is that much.

 

Well you have to figure $400-$600 for a large air-air intercooler. I would assume this kit is being marketed to high HP applications so you are going to need a big FMIC to cool that hot air. $600-$1000 for the IM. Then $200-$300 for the charged air pipes, couplers and clamps.

Is it safe to assume the M62 will be in the stock location? If not you have to worry about the belt system and intake.

 

ya. thats a no brainer. u looze

 

why, i have proof that it does work and works well so how do i lose?

 

Haha. The Mini Coopers use the same sc.

 

Manifold is done, here it is, has thermal coating on it, the last pic is dirty lol, everyone was man handlin the manifold with their dirty as hands :p working on charge piping right, due to there being a oil filter right under the manifold, the hto charge air has to go to the side instead of down like intended...working on other things for this car next...as i see everyone is mad about the water/air being dropped, i apologize...but had we continued with it, the cost would of been way out of what anyone would be willing to pay, despite w/e gains it may provide...one thing is true to cobalt owners...we're cheap...we want good part for cheap prices, and i honestly believe a single pass intake manifold would be the best route, unless we can get a damn IC core small enough to fit in the tiny bit of room thats available


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