Intake manifold
09-11-2008, 05:28 PM
#26
wow, might have to look into this. This might be the money shot. It would mean totally repositioning the supercharger to the exhaust side right above the headers, but it would free up a ton of room and you would be able to run a fmic and use the hahn intake manifold. wow, I have not seen that yet. Thanks for sharing. Could possibly be a great idea.
okay, after looking into the DDM setup, I'm just not sure if our intake manifold is as restrictive as we've made it out to be. I know that a lot of 2.4 owners (ex. Beck) have bolted a setup from a stock ss/sc and put down around 240+whp. These guys are only putting about 190ish whp down. I think it may be due to the amount of piping needed to run a FMIC and what not. I think they may be losing too much efficiency.
For example: http://www.theoldone.com/components/...er_systems.htm
This site is a company that produces a eaton M62 (same as ours) setup for hondas. They don't even run an intercooler because they claim that by mounting the supercharger as close as possible to the head will give them the most efficiency. Now our intake manifold mounts the supercharger really close to the head AND gives us an intercooling system. So is our intake manifold really that crappy? I'm beginning to think not.
I know LSJWANNABE ran into heat and boost issues when going with a 2.5 pulley with the Harrop TVS. I think that had more to do with the head than the intake manifold. For example, Rebel Auto Worx gained roughly 50-60whp on a stockish car from a **** ton of head work. Now I bet if they bolted a harrop TVS on it, it would probably run a 2.5 pulley no problem.
Opinions?
okay, after looking into the DDM setup, I'm just not sure if our intake manifold is as restrictive as we've made it out to be. I know that a lot of 2.4 owners (ex. Beck) have bolted a setup from a stock ss/sc and put down around 240+whp. These guys are only putting about 190ish whp down. I think it may be due to the amount of piping needed to run a FMIC and what not. I think they may be losing too much efficiency.
For example: http://www.theoldone.com/components/...er_systems.htm
This site is a company that produces a eaton M62 (same as ours) setup for hondas. They don't even run an intercooler because they claim that by mounting the supercharger as close as possible to the head will give them the most efficiency. Now our intake manifold mounts the supercharger really close to the head AND gives us an intercooling system. So is our intake manifold really that crappy? I'm beginning to think not.
I know LSJWANNABE ran into heat and boost issues when going with a 2.5 pulley with the Harrop TVS. I think that had more to do with the head than the intake manifold. For example, Rebel Auto Worx gained roughly 50-60whp on a stockish car from a **** ton of head work. Now I bet if they bolted a harrop TVS on it, it would probably run a 2.5 pulley no problem.
Opinions?
and the stg 1 kit for the m62 runs 190 whp
the stg 2 kit produces better numbers then beck
235HP AND 245 FT/LBS OF TORQUE AT THE WHEELS ( considering extra drivetrain loss)
* 90 HP Gain
* 9-10 PSI (depending on exhaust restrictions)
* For 2.4L Ecotec Manual Transmissions
* True Bolt on Kit!
* No extra Tuning neccesary!
09-11-2008, 05:39 PM
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-06-05
Location: Seneca, South Carolina
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
okay, depending on what the gains are from OTT performances ported stock intake manifold, it may not be worth it to come up with a new design.
See what I mean? Is our intake manifold really that shitty?
See what I mean? Is our intake manifold really that shitty?
09-11-2008, 05:47 PM
#30
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: 06-27-05
Location: Wilson, NY
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IDK if its shitty or not, sure isn't as pretty as the lotus or hahns setups though. But I do agree with you. A couple of months ago when I pm'ed you for some opinions, I checked out RAW's ported head, gains seemed ridiculously too good. Anyone know what happened to RAW cause their website hasn't worked in bout a month? Where else can we get someone to port and polish the head? What other things are involved in this? New valves, springs, cams?
09-11-2008, 05:54 PM
#32
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: 03-31-08
Location: y
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im taking my blower and maybe manifold to a local place by me. They do really good work, my friends eclipse is getting its motor rebiult by them and its looking nice. I cant wait to see the results just from that and a bigger tb and spacer for my meth.
09-11-2008, 05:58 PM
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-06-05
Location: Seneca, South Carolina
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
****, I know someone local that can port/polish heads and do full rebuilds. It's freaking NAPA auto parts. They have a machine shop in the back. **** paying rebel that much money.
09-11-2008, 06:13 PM
#34
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: 06-27-05
Location: Wilson, NY
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah I would look to a local shop first. Now are you talking about just opening and smoothing out the intake and exhaust ports on the head? Do they also work on the valve openings or anthing else?
09-11-2008, 06:25 PM
#35
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-06-05
Location: Seneca, South Carolina
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I know the NAPA where I live can do anything I want to an engine. Custom work may be a little too much to ask though. But anything head work related, they can do.
09-11-2008, 11:35 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-06-07
Location: everywhere
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
do any n/a ecotec manifolds fit our lsj? If we can use an off the shelf manifold like that, then that would take out the fabrication of a manifold. The hardest part would be finding a way to mount the supercharger so you can have piping go off of it to the front of the car to have an air to air ic.... Then again, i'm not a fabricator. I had the idea when I saw the miatas with a root supercharger on them running a fmic.
09-12-2008, 12:07 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-01-06
Location: Maidstone, SK
Posts: 5,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
****.... YOU GUYS!!!!
I'm working on it. I haven't even moved into my new shop.
It's looking like I'm going to ditch the 'extra' engineering in order to get this on the car... go a-a or go home.
And for the record... it looks very very pretty sitting it it's box.
Initial tests say big potential!
And no... you guys don't get pics yet.
I'm working on it. I haven't even moved into my new shop.
It's looking like I'm going to ditch the 'extra' engineering in order to get this on the car... go a-a or go home.
And for the record... it looks very very pretty sitting it it's box.
Initial tests say big potential!
And no... you guys don't get pics yet.
Last edited by Omega_5; 09-12-2008 at 12:31 AM.
09-12-2008, 12:20 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-29-06
Location: Mulberry, Florida
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im in the middle of building an awsome intake manifold using a bell intercooler core and some fabrication we'll see! That stock intake manifold is the worst possible problem with that car I cant belive GM bought off on it? With my intake manifold I cut off the front belly and gutted the entire manifold. Know the supercharger isn't blowing into a wall of hot aluminum. I redirected flow to pass threw a true dual pass the core demension's are 3.5" thick by 4.5" tall by 6.5" in lenght. It flows through the top around the front and back through the bottom then into the runner! This will be the collest possible air to water, I'de like to see a air to air setup it would be easy I just stuck with the air/water set-up!
I'll post pictures as soon as I get home!
I'll post pictures as soon as I get home!
this sounds like it would be better...just a hollowed out mani with a large core inside so its all open flow...
09-12-2008, 06:17 AM
#45
The 2.4 or 2.2 plastic manifold's breather hole don't line up due to the different head castings!
You better go for an alu Saab 9-3 int. manifold or LNF turbo intake manif. Direct fit for the LSJ head.
(Can somebody post a pic of these intake manifolds?)
You better go for an alu Saab 9-3 int. manifold or LNF turbo intake manif. Direct fit for the LSJ head.
(Can somebody post a pic of these intake manifolds?)
09-12-2008, 09:37 AM
#47
I still have not seen any proof that an air to air aftercooler system is better then our water to air with the Laminova cores. Its true that our IM is not the greatest and could fixed or (ported) to help improve air flow over the laminova cores according to Opcon.
If you do a little research on www.lotustalk.com you will find that most guys are running pulleys between 3.1"-3.5". Our stock cooling system has no problems with pulleys that size.
The problem with the LSJ is with smaller pulleys that over spin the blower taking it out of its efficiency range. Is an air to air system going to fix that?
If you do a little research on www.lotustalk.com you will find that most guys are running pulleys between 3.1"-3.5". Our stock cooling system has no problems with pulleys that size.
The problem with the LSJ is with smaller pulleys that over spin the blower taking it out of its efficiency range. Is an air to air system going to fix that?
09-12-2008, 09:46 AM
#48
New Member
Join Date: 05-15-07
Location: Lake County IN
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still have not seen any proof that an air to air aftercooler system is better then our water to air with the Laminova cores. Its true that our IM is not the greatest and could fixed or (ported) to help improve air flow over the laminova cores according to Opcon.
If you do a little research on www.lotustalk.com you will find that most guys are running pulleys between 3.1"-3.5". Our stock cooling system has no problems with pulleys that size.
The problem with the LSJ is with smaller pulleys that over spin the blower taking it out of its efficiency range. Is an air to air system going to fix that?
If you do a little research on www.lotustalk.com you will find that most guys are running pulleys between 3.1"-3.5". Our stock cooling system has no problems with pulleys that size.
The problem with the LSJ is with smaller pulleys that over spin the blower taking it out of its efficiency range. Is an air to air system going to fix that?
09-12-2008, 10:11 AM
#49
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-06-05
Location: Seneca, South Carolina
Posts: 10,944
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
ebristol, thanks for the link to the lotus forums.
runriot, I agree, I think a ported stock intake manifold will be the best available. But that's my personal opinion.
runriot, I agree, I think a ported stock intake manifold will be the best available. But that's my personal opinion.
09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
#50
Between css and rlfs this discussion gets brought up every 3-4 months. Eventually some one will post the pics of that toyota supercharged engine thinking they found the answer. But no one knows for sure.
Someone should join that lotus forum and tell them to put a 2.5" pulley on their M62 and see what happens! lol
Does anyone know the size of the pulley that GM runs on the TVS in the new LSX?
Someone should join that lotus forum and tell them to put a 2.5" pulley on their M62 and see what happens! lol
Does anyone know the size of the pulley that GM runs on the TVS in the new LSX?
