Lysholm 1.6 Twinscrew - En route to power!
07-24-2011, 11:10 AM
#77
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I disagree with your assumption as to why the thread was made. There was nothing in the first post that compared this to any other setup. This thread is to post numbers and prove/disprove what this kit can do. And without numbers, we don't really know.Also I assumed that when you said you could take 4000 and make the alternative, it was a turbo because that would be a lot to spend on a nitrous kit(I know you said or less). So can we stay on what the lysholm is capable of or can do until numbers or figured so we can then compare in the future. Thanks..
07-24-2011, 12:00 PM
#78
so whats being said is that this Lysholm twinscrew should not be placed on a car thats being daily driven not saying it cant be done but it wont be practical aka needs race gas or is at least on E85. seeing as how I dont have any E85 gas stations around me Im kinda ...screwed
and price tag is going to be over 2,000 for this supercharger?
and price tag is going to be over 2,000 for this supercharger?
07-24-2011, 02:20 PM
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07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
#83
The graph Rootbeer posted is way out of date.
Vortech is working on providing new up-to-date graphs for all their lysholm products. (vortech owns Lysholm... sob i know... i know.. moving on)
---------------
This isn't rocket science ladies and gentleman..
With any s/c'd setup on this car. To see maximum gains you'll need a full exhaust, intake, ls4 throttle body, e-85 or methanol. I really don't consider that "heavily modded". Cooling mods are optional... Your better off getting a phenolic intake mani spacer from ZZP and/or introducing more water into the system via Euthanasia's 4 gallon or 1 gallon flow thru tanks.
Here's a HUGE key point to remember. This blower is a 1.6L... our engine is a 2.0l... Our heads flow as well as I can throw darts (I'm ****).
DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT!!!!! WE DON'T HAVE IT!!!
What do we have?
We have an efficient twinscrew, whether it's on a 3.4 @ 7400 (14,127 rpm) or 3.8 pulley @ 7400 (12,657 rpm)
Capability to rev to 7400 rpm (STOCK VALVETRAIN)
Euthanasia's porting abilities for an extremely low cost... Ehhhem... Euthanasia's head porting....
What do we do?
Port the head (without head work, you'll be around 23-24 psi on a 3.8 pulley... ^PSI = ^HEAT... Put the silly cooling mods down... yes I'm talking to you... add a nozzle pre blower... no no not a 3gph you puss... and spray a 50/50 mix or greater)
add e-85 or methanol, maybe both
rev it as far your budget allows
quit dicking around w/ cooling mods and tune the damn thing, it's not difficult.
Vortech is working on providing new up-to-date graphs for all their lysholm products. (vortech owns Lysholm... sob i know... i know.. moving on)
---------------
This isn't rocket science ladies and gentleman..
With any s/c'd setup on this car. To see maximum gains you'll need a full exhaust, intake, ls4 throttle body, e-85 or methanol. I really don't consider that "heavily modded". Cooling mods are optional... Your better off getting a phenolic intake mani spacer from ZZP and/or introducing more water into the system via Euthanasia's 4 gallon or 1 gallon flow thru tanks.
Here's a HUGE key point to remember. This blower is a 1.6L... our engine is a 2.0l... Our heads flow as well as I can throw darts (I'm ****).
DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT, DISPLACEMENT!!!!! WE DON'T HAVE IT!!!
What do we have?
We have an efficient twinscrew, whether it's on a 3.4 @ 7400 (14,127 rpm) or 3.8 pulley @ 7400 (12,657 rpm)
Capability to rev to 7400 rpm (STOCK VALVETRAIN)
Euthanasia's porting abilities for an extremely low cost... Ehhhem... Euthanasia's head porting....
What do we do?
Port the head (without head work, you'll be around 23-24 psi on a 3.8 pulley... ^PSI = ^HEAT... Put the silly cooling mods down... yes I'm talking to you... add a nozzle pre blower... no no not a 3gph you puss... and spray a 50/50 mix or greater)
add e-85 or methanol, maybe both
rev it as far your budget allows
quit dicking around w/ cooling mods and tune the damn thing, it's not difficult.
Last edited by 100% METH; 07-24-2011 at 03:36 PM.
07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
#84
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really? so injectors, harness, plugs, dual pass +/- secondary heat exchanger, intake, header, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges doesn't add up to two grand? you may be able to hover right over a grand with used and ebay equipment
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
07-24-2011, 04:43 PM
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hell, it put down 320whp/330wtq with a canned tune right out of the box lol
07-24-2011, 04:49 PM
#86
really? so injectors, harness, plugs, dual pass +/- secondary heat exchanger, intake, header, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges doesn't add up to two grand? you may be able to hover right over a grand with used and ebay equipment
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
07-24-2011, 05:20 PM
#87
really? so injectors, harness, plugs, dual pass +/- secondary heat exchanger, intake, header, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges doesn't add up to two grand? you may be able to hover right over a grand with used and ebay equipment
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
07-24-2011, 10:24 PM
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07-25-2011, 01:02 AM
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really? so injectors, harness, plugs, dual pass +/- secondary heat exchanger, intake, header, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges doesn't add up to two grand? you may be able to hover right over a grand with used and ebay equipment
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
you're correct, you can bolt up a tvs to anything but in your own words, it is a disappointment unless you push it
But even with a turbo, you need injectors, harness, plugs, intercooler setup, charge pipes, intake, turbo manifold, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges.. etc. So it's a moot point. You can't claim that the TVS will need supporting mods and pretend like a turbo won't.
There are some here who have done the TVS, injectors, tuning, E85 and that's pretty much it, and put out WELL over 300, in fact closer to 350 - a gain of over 150whp off of most stock dyno's (which also, btw, is only ~30whp off of your turbo setup). That doesn't sound like $2k in mods to me just to run the TVS.
But, of course, to each their own. The turbo vs. supercharger debate will always be there.
07-25-2011, 01:48 AM
#90
Im a firm believer in a ported head being the best mod for the LSJ if it is still on a blower. That combined with E85 or meth and a good tune makes for a fun and decently quick setup. Most blower LSJ's wont compete with turbo ones but to each their own. Hell on a TVS with a 2.9" pulley (***** **** lol) on 17psi on the STOCK slipping clutch and stock 05 fuel pump and 26" slicks that hit the spring perch and kill the top end I mustered out a 12.6 with a 2.1 60' and trapped 113.2mph.
Also Euthanasia's heads are pretty damn awesome.
Also Euthanasia's heads are pretty damn awesome.
07-25-2011, 09:45 AM
#92
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So is the M62. I think you will agree that the M62 is slow as ***** unless you perform all supporting mods and of course tuning.
But even with a turbo, you need injectors, harness, plugs, intercooler setup, charge pipes, intake, turbo manifold, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges.. etc. So it's a moot point. You can't claim that the TVS will need supporting mods and pretend like a turbo won't.
There are some here who have done the TVS, injectors, tuning, E85 and that's pretty much it, and put out WELL over 300, in fact closer to 350 - a gain of over 150whp off of most stock dyno's (which also, btw, is only ~30whp off of your turbo setup). That doesn't sound like $2k in mods to me just to run the TVS.
But, of course, to each their own. The turbo vs. supercharger debate will always be there.
But even with a turbo, you need injectors, harness, plugs, intercooler setup, charge pipes, intake, turbo manifold, downpipe, exhaust, tune, gauges.. etc. So it's a moot point. You can't claim that the TVS will need supporting mods and pretend like a turbo won't.
There are some here who have done the TVS, injectors, tuning, E85 and that's pretty much it, and put out WELL over 300, in fact closer to 350 - a gain of over 150whp off of most stock dyno's (which also, btw, is only ~30whp off of your turbo setup). That doesn't sound like $2k in mods to me just to run the TVS.
But, of course, to each their own. The turbo vs. supercharger debate will always be there.
07-25-2011, 11:08 AM
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TVS ~ $2000
2.7" pulley ~ $60
80# inj ~ $180
injector harness ~ $35
HPT Pro ~ $650
E85
-----------
$2925
In any sense, the injectors and tuning (and E85) are a wash since you would also need those for a turbo car. So, for simply the cost of a TVS and pulley, you can have 340whp. Plus, they are a direct bolt-in which can be done in under 20 minutes, adding injectors will take another 10. And with the way the TVS's are going for used on here, you can trade up your M62 and some cash and it will only cost you around $12-1500 for 340whp.
But according to what you wrote...
"more power with less upgrades...."
Turbo
Turbo exhaust manifold
custom downpipe to mate to exhaust
custom intake routing
blow-off valve
intercooler piping
intercooler
wastegate
[EDIT : Forgot about the supercharger delete and belt re-routing, 2.2 alternator, tensioner... etc...]
and if you wanted to add in the injectors and tuning...
+$865
That doesn't fit your argument. The turbo swap doesn't really start to shine unless you start to push it... just like you said about the TVS swap. Plus, the turbo is most definitely NOT a direct bolt-in. Lots of custom/special parts needed (even more if you have a redline...) So, more power with less upgrades doesn't really apply to anything under "heavily modded" and 400 whp. Hell, you ain't even at 400 yet...
Last edited by Tennpenn83; 07-25-2011 at 11:27 AM.
07-25-2011, 11:52 AM
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oh ye of little knowledge.. i've had three different blowers on the car and multiple turbos, you are guessing what actually needs to be done and i am telling you from first hand knowledge.
when you do your calculation there, you are picking and choosing what to list and what not to to try and prove your point, in a worse case of statistics manipulation than a fox news poll.
you don't need a custom intake on a turbo, and you don't need a custom downpipe. the intake on mine was an aem, and the downpipe was an unmodified zzp downpipe that was on the car with the tvs. don't need a wastegate, plenty of them are internal and function fine. and you can't compare used equipment... if that was the case, i only paid $2400 shipped for a tune, piping, intake, filter, manifold, turbo, aem electronic boost controller, fmic and a partidge in a pear tree than ran on pump gas and puts down more power (and way more torque) with a canned tune than most of the tvs's... but what i paid and the price of used tvs's is completely irrelevant
and peak hp is irrelevant to me, if you ain't making torque, you're not going anywhere unless you're in the peak of the rpm band.. .torque is what gets you there and mine had enough to break street tires loose at 80mph with the boost turned up, you're not doing that with any blower here because they just don't have it.
anyways, removing my stuff from the discussion and back to the point, i was just talking about the cost/benefit of this and someone always has to point towards personal stuff when they have no valid info to back up their points... you can argue about shoulda would coulda all day, but this is one reason why i got rid of the car and am buying an ariel atom they're expensive and not so many kids that own them.
when you do your calculation there, you are picking and choosing what to list and what not to to try and prove your point, in a worse case of statistics manipulation than a fox news poll.
you don't need a custom intake on a turbo, and you don't need a custom downpipe. the intake on mine was an aem, and the downpipe was an unmodified zzp downpipe that was on the car with the tvs. don't need a wastegate, plenty of them are internal and function fine. and you can't compare used equipment... if that was the case, i only paid $2400 shipped for a tune, piping, intake, filter, manifold, turbo, aem electronic boost controller, fmic and a partidge in a pear tree than ran on pump gas and puts down more power (and way more torque) with a canned tune than most of the tvs's... but what i paid and the price of used tvs's is completely irrelevant
and peak hp is irrelevant to me, if you ain't making torque, you're not going anywhere unless you're in the peak of the rpm band.. .torque is what gets you there and mine had enough to break street tires loose at 80mph with the boost turned up, you're not doing that with any blower here because they just don't have it.
anyways, removing my stuff from the discussion and back to the point, i was just talking about the cost/benefit of this and someone always has to point towards personal stuff when they have no valid info to back up their points... you can argue about shoulda would coulda all day, but this is one reason why i got rid of the car and am buying an ariel atom they're expensive and not so many kids that own them.
Last edited by selfinfliction; 07-25-2011 at 11:57 AM.
07-25-2011, 12:16 PM
#96
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oh ye of little knowledge.. i've had three different blowers on the car and multiple turbos, you are guessing what actually needs to be done and i am telling you from first hand knowledge.
when you do your calculation there, you are picking and choosing what to list and what not to to try and prove your point, in a worse case of statistics manipulation than a fox news poll.
when you do your calculation there, you are picking and choosing what to list and what not to to try and prove your point, in a worse case of statistics manipulation than a fox news poll.
you don't need a custom intake on a turbo, and you don't need a custom downpipe. the intake on mine was an aem, and the downpipe was an unmodified zzp downpipe that was on the car with the tvs. don't need a wastegate, plenty of them are internal and function fine. and you can't compare used equipment... if that was the case, i only paid $2400 shipped for a tune, piping, intake, filter, manifold, turbo, aem electronic boost controller, fmic and a partidge in a pear tree than ran on pump gas and puts down more power (and way more torque) with a canned tune than most of the tvs's... but what i paid and the price of used tvs's is completely irrelevant
TVS ~ $2k
2.7 ~ $60
Can you build a turbo kit that is able to reach 350whp using brand new, quality parts for under $2k? It can't be done. There are too many things that need to be done.
and peak hp is irrelevant to me, if you ain't making torque, you're not going anywhere unless you're in the peak of the rpm band.. .torque is what gets you there and mine had enough to break street tires loose at 80mph with the boost turned up, you're not doing that with any blower here because they just don't have it.
And I completely agree. Torque is a beautiful thing. That's why I love how a supercharger makes torque from 1500 rpms to redline. And btw, a 2.7" TVS with E85 makes quite a bit of torque.
anyways, removing my stuff from the discussion and back to the point, i was just talking about the cost/benefit of this and someone always has to point towards personal stuff when they have no valid info to back up their points... you can argue about shoulda would coulda all day, but this is one reason why i got rid of the car and am buying an ariel atom they're expensive and not so many kids that own them.
07-25-2011, 12:21 PM
#97
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which points all the back to the beginning of the discussion
07-25-2011, 12:50 PM
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WSFrazier, I hope you don't mind if I use your thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...5-dyno-246633/
So 352whp can be had with :
TVS
2.7" pulley
E85
Plus what any other car pushing 350whp would need
80# injectors/harness
tune
Other stuff on the car
ZZP BRFPS
Aftermarket fuel pump (since the `05's were crap)
GMPP extruded honed exh manifold
Cat-delete downpipe, 2.5"
GMPP cat-back (2.25", smaller than the stock 2.5")
Hurst Shifter
All this "other stuff" really doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of power.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...5-dyno-246633/
So 352whp can be had with :
TVS
2.7" pulley
E85
Plus what any other car pushing 350whp would need
80# injectors/harness
tune
Other stuff on the car
ZZP BRFPS
Aftermarket fuel pump (since the `05's were crap)
GMPP extruded honed exh manifold
Cat-delete downpipe, 2.5"
GMPP cat-back (2.25", smaller than the stock 2.5")
Hurst Shifter
All this "other stuff" really doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of power.
07-25-2011, 01:00 PM
#99
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stuff does matter, that is not even close to a stock car jesus this place never ceases to amaze...
this is like me saying the sc only had everything installed except piping and an fmic and put down 350whp for $1k cause that's all the turbo itself cost
this is like me saying the sc only had everything installed except piping and an fmic and put down 350whp for $1k cause that's all the turbo itself cost